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	<title>Comments on: Euro Falling, US Recovery Under Threat</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: kyriakos</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kyriakos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not necessarily nonsensical, considering that the EU is (supposed to be) a political union. If Germany is allowing it&#039;s already greatly indebted partners to get deeper into debt due to the high risk premiums they&#039;re paying by refusing to support them so it can speed up it&#039;s own recovery, the question of what kind of union the EU is obviously comes to mind as does the question whether Germany is very happy to enjoy the benefits of the EU and the EMU without it&#039;s downside.

Please don&#039;t give me the &quot;they deserve what they got&quot; line. Even if we forget the issues of trade imbalances and assymetric shocks in a currency union, which make the situation the eurozone is in today totally predictable and in fact predicted by various economists, the &quot;we&#039;ve been deceived by Greece&quot; line parrotted by various EU officials is pure hypocrisy. Maybe they shouldn&#039;t have allowed Greece into the eurozone in the first place but now they have to deal with the fact that they did. Or kick them out and let the IMF take over. Greece has been running high debt-to-GDP ratios and budget deficits for decades and if the EU didn&#039;t have either the mechanism or the will to impose fiscal responsibility on Greece it has to take part of the blame for the debacle.

Anyway, recent events make me believe that although Germany certainly benefits from the situation they will not allow it to continue for very long. Already the rumours for a greek bail-out are becoming stronger and the bond spreads decline. As this coincides with the announcements by the greek government of austerity measures and the new tax code it is probable that political pressure to the greek government was at least part of the &quot;we will not bail Greece out&quot; tactic used up to now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not necessarily nonsensical, considering that the EU is (supposed to be) a political union. If Germany is allowing it&#8217;s already greatly indebted partners to get deeper into debt due to the high risk premiums they&#8217;re paying by refusing to support them so it can speed up it&#8217;s own recovery, the question of what kind of union the EU is obviously comes to mind as does the question whether Germany is very happy to enjoy the benefits of the EU and the EMU without it&#8217;s downside.</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t give me the &#8220;they deserve what they got&#8221; line. Even if we forget the issues of trade imbalances and assymetric shocks in a currency union, which make the situation the eurozone is in today totally predictable and in fact predicted by various economists, the &#8220;we&#8217;ve been deceived by Greece&#8221; line parrotted by various EU officials is pure hypocrisy. Maybe they shouldn&#8217;t have allowed Greece into the eurozone in the first place but now they have to deal with the fact that they did. Or kick them out and let the IMF take over. Greece has been running high debt-to-GDP ratios and budget deficits for decades and if the EU didn&#8217;t have either the mechanism or the will to impose fiscal responsibility on Greece it has to take part of the blame for the debacle.</p>
<p>Anyway, recent events make me believe that although Germany certainly benefits from the situation they will not allow it to continue for very long. Already the rumours for a greek bail-out are becoming stronger and the bond spreads decline. As this coincides with the announcements by the greek government of austerity measures and the new tax code it is probable that political pressure to the greek government was at least part of the &#8220;we will not bail Greece out&#8221; tactic used up to now.</p>
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		<title>By: Flandro</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42695</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Flandro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait. Aren&#039;t the US&#039;s biggest trade partners outside of Europe?  Didn&#039;t European currencies weaken in the 1990s as the US economy expanded? I realise I&#039;m over-simplifying a little here, but how correlated is a weak euro to a big US trade deficit - really?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait. Aren&#8217;t the US&#8217;s biggest trade partners outside of Europe?  Didn&#8217;t European currencies weaken in the 1990s as the US economy expanded? I realise I&#8217;m over-simplifying a little here, but how correlated is a weak euro to a big US trade deficit &#8211; really?</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42650</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A strong dollar? A strong dollar would put the Euro at $0.85.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A strong dollar? A strong dollar would put the Euro at $0.85.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42649</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42649</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This could have been predicted by anyone at inception of the Euro. What the corporations are after is one common European government, controlling all the decisions now left to individual countries. Hitler wanted the same thing. Plus que ca change....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This could have been predicted by anyone at inception of the Euro. What the corporations are after is one common European government, controlling all the decisions now left to individual countries. Hitler wanted the same thing. Plus que ca change&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could have made the same arguments in 1982. The fact is that fiat money creates a traders&#039; world. Traders know the price of everything, the value of nothing. Expect prices to fluctuate, endlessly, while govt lackies apply lipstick to the pig and corporate poobahs prattle about deficits and shareholder value and stampede toward monopoly. The problem is political. Either we control these people or they control us. The middle class has simply run out of wiggle room. Veblen explained all this in 1904.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could have made the same arguments in 1982. The fact is that fiat money creates a traders&#8217; world. Traders know the price of everything, the value of nothing. Expect prices to fluctuate, endlessly, while govt lackies apply lipstick to the pig and corporate poobahs prattle about deficits and shareholder value and stampede toward monopoly. The problem is political. Either we control these people or they control us. The middle class has simply run out of wiggle room. Veblen explained all this in 1904.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s what they&#039;ve been doing for a year now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what they&#8217;ve been doing for a year now.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42646</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, the whole thing was a scam, contrived to save Goldman from its AIG exposure. Period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the whole thing was a scam, contrived to save Goldman from its AIG exposure. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You forgot the Fed, which will drive the dollar down to support US exports. What drove the Euro to 148 in the first place? It is still an open question whether an ocean of electronic money can prevent collapse of the latest thing regarded as a strong asset in the hedge fund universe. I suspect publicized attacks on the Greek social contract will produce miraculous recovery of Greek bonds. Think Mexico, Argentina, 1982.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot the Fed, which will drive the dollar down to support US exports. What drove the Euro to 148 in the first place? It is still an open question whether an ocean of electronic money can prevent collapse of the latest thing regarded as a strong asset in the hedge fund universe. I suspect publicized attacks on the Greek social contract will produce miraculous recovery of Greek bonds. Think Mexico, Argentina, 1982.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42599</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well if you prioritize fighting oil speculators before giving your citizens job that´s you problem. I would not do that. And besides since the lower that you artificially keep the oil the more you get addicted to it, coming as I do from an oil exporting country, I have no problem with that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if you prioritize fighting oil speculators before giving your citizens job that´s you problem. I would not do that. And besides since the lower that you artificially keep the oil the more you get addicted to it, coming as I do from an oil exporting country, I have no problem with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc at the Radar Station</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doc at the Radar Station]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it is cheating oneself, no disagreement there at all.  But, I think we are in a situation where we are fortunately making oil speculators *lose money* (through a temporarily artificial strong dollar) in order to keep demand (ex-energy) propped up.  I recently have read where oil futures are trading at an equivalent price higher than *gasoline* futures (the end product of refining).  The oil is getting bought and stored while refining capacity is being shut.  This is insanity and it isn&#039;t going to go on much longer.  Hello 2008 redoux.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is cheating oneself, no disagreement there at all.  But, I think we are in a situation where we are fortunately making oil speculators *lose money* (through a temporarily artificial strong dollar) in order to keep demand (ex-energy) propped up.  I recently have read where oil futures are trading at an equivalent price higher than *gasoline* futures (the end product of refining).  The oil is getting bought and stored while refining capacity is being shut.  This is insanity and it isn&#8217;t going to go on much longer.  Hello 2008 redoux.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A strong dollar in order to keep oil prices low sounds only like sort of cheating oneself]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A strong dollar in order to keep oil prices low sounds only like sort of cheating oneself</p>
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		<title>By: Doc at the Radar Station</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doc at the Radar Station]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The euro depreciates, the dollar strengthens, and our path to recovery starts to run more uphill.&quot;

A lower valued dollar helps out US exports medium-term to long-term. But, there is another side to that.  A  temporarily stronger dollar in the SHORT TERM can be a big boost to PCE due to cheaper gasoline prices and the resulting freeing up of discretionary income that helps to relieve budget stresses on the bottom 1/3 of households.  The question that I haven&#039;t seen answered yet from any economists are what&#039;s the breaks here?  I&#039;ve got a suspicion that our (*long term*) strong dollar policy is the root of the problem.  We have opted for cheap gas as a stimulant as long as possible at the expense of everything else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The euro depreciates, the dollar strengthens, and our path to recovery starts to run more uphill.&#8221;</p>
<p>A lower valued dollar helps out US exports medium-term to long-term. But, there is another side to that.  A  temporarily stronger dollar in the SHORT TERM can be a big boost to PCE due to cheaper gasoline prices and the resulting freeing up of discretionary income that helps to relieve budget stresses on the bottom 1/3 of households.  The question that I haven&#8217;t seen answered yet from any economists are what&#8217;s the breaks here?  I&#8217;ve got a suspicion that our (*long term*) strong dollar policy is the root of the problem.  We have opted for cheap gas as a stimulant as long as possible at the expense of everything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Rickk</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42573</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rickk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr Johnson wrote February 7, 2010 :

&quot;And if these European troubles start to be reflected in difficulties for leading global banks over the next few days or weeks, the negative impact will be much greater.&quot;



Monday 8 February 2010 19.58 GMT - Guardian.co.uk - excerpt

The cost of insuring against a potential default on western Europe&#039;s debt hit a new record as officials failed for a third consecutive day to reassure investors about the ability of southern European countries to pay their bills.&quot;

http://tinyurl.com/ydk5eb9]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Johnson wrote February 7, 2010 :</p>
<p>&#8220;And if these European troubles start to be reflected in difficulties for leading global banks over the next few days or weeks, the negative impact will be much greater.&#8221;</p>
<p>Monday 8 February 2010 19.58 GMT &#8211; Guardian.co.uk &#8211; excerpt</p>
<p>The cost of insuring against a potential default on western Europe&#8217;s debt hit a new record as officials failed for a third consecutive day to reassure investors about the ability of southern European countries to pay their bills.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ydk5eb9" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ydk5eb9</a></p>
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		<title>By: Marcus P.</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marcus P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Due to various sensibilities of politcal or economic nature (perhaps polinomic is a better word) there is a lot of smoke blowing around all issues concerning the Euro and especially the credibility of various EU member states. 

Greece looks more like a slaughter lamb in that circle then the epitome of untrustworthy public accounting. Here in Germany, at least between the lines, the press sounds a bit like &quot;ahh those Greek, never should have trusted them, a bunch of crooks like those Romanians&quot;. Viewpoints like that have a long eh tradition and while meaningless where markets and numbers are concerned, they have a lot of influence.

It doesn&#039;t matter which country has problems as long as it isn&#039;t your own. Most important: you don&#039;t give money to crooks. Especially not after the last bank meltdown in Bavaria with the Hype Alpe Adria and their Balkan business. Especially not while waiting for a not so small election to get brutal with the population about taxes and federal budget problems. Especially not with a government that right now fights public opinion of &quot;worst first 100 days ever&quot;.

Help Greece? Maybe with an all-inclusive vacation next summer if they keep civil peace but that&#039;s about it. Europe isn&#039;t Europe if there are no ways to &quot;help&quot; Greece without it looking like help but while this may work with some everyday subsidies, a freakin bankruptcy? Nah, until this situation developed it was forbidden to even think in public about any member of the eurozone going belly up - for good nutcase-reason too. That&#039;s why we have those Euro convergence criteria that nobody takes serious in real live.  

Of course only a selected few even wish to help Greece, even with open doors and journalists present. The Greece equation sounds like &quot;Euro + Greece = trouble + where did that come from?&quot;. The role of Greece there is more or less symbolic. It&#039;s the currency, stupid. Still, to argue we will see a D-Mark again anytime soon is perhaps a bit more outlandish then the reality approaching times we live in. Even in a &quot;the game is on&quot; atmosphere there are some things people cling to (not the public, business people).

Germany wants to cure it&#039;s economy by export of mostly high end comsumer and industrial goods, world export leader and all. Political wet dreams aside the method of choice is called &quot;unit labor cost wonder&quot;, a cheap and at the same time highly qualified workforce (eh wet dream time again). At the same time the domestic market is Germanys weak spot (in some aspects like low private debt a blessing). 

It&#039;s all trivia but it still defines where your currency has to go. In the long run at least from the German viewpoint this develops to the question &quot;How can I sell the largest amount of cars amd powerplants world wide?&quot;. The eu common market is a big part of that, equally because of customers and competitors. The sheer size of it may even start some phantasies of megalomania that no rational human can forsee but still transform into actual policy. From a somewhat sane point of view you don&#039;t sabotage a common currency in an economic situation of mistrust and &quot;race to the bottom&quot; atmosphere. Now if wishes were horses dreamers could ride and the eurozone may even get away with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to various sensibilities of politcal or economic nature (perhaps polinomic is a better word) there is a lot of smoke blowing around all issues concerning the Euro and especially the credibility of various EU member states. </p>
<p>Greece looks more like a slaughter lamb in that circle then the epitome of untrustworthy public accounting. Here in Germany, at least between the lines, the press sounds a bit like &#8220;ahh those Greek, never should have trusted them, a bunch of crooks like those Romanians&#8221;. Viewpoints like that have a long eh tradition and while meaningless where markets and numbers are concerned, they have a lot of influence.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter which country has problems as long as it isn&#8217;t your own. Most important: you don&#8217;t give money to crooks. Especially not after the last bank meltdown in Bavaria with the Hype Alpe Adria and their Balkan business. Especially not while waiting for a not so small election to get brutal with the population about taxes and federal budget problems. Especially not with a government that right now fights public opinion of &#8220;worst first 100 days ever&#8221;.</p>
<p>Help Greece? Maybe with an all-inclusive vacation next summer if they keep civil peace but that&#8217;s about it. Europe isn&#8217;t Europe if there are no ways to &#8220;help&#8221; Greece without it looking like help but while this may work with some everyday subsidies, a freakin bankruptcy? Nah, until this situation developed it was forbidden to even think in public about any member of the eurozone going belly up &#8211; for good nutcase-reason too. That&#8217;s why we have those Euro convergence criteria that nobody takes serious in real live.  </p>
<p>Of course only a selected few even wish to help Greece, even with open doors and journalists present. The Greece equation sounds like &#8220;Euro + Greece = trouble + where did that come from?&#8221;. The role of Greece there is more or less symbolic. It&#8217;s the currency, stupid. Still, to argue we will see a D-Mark again anytime soon is perhaps a bit more outlandish then the reality approaching times we live in. Even in a &#8220;the game is on&#8221; atmosphere there are some things people cling to (not the public, business people).</p>
<p>Germany wants to cure it&#8217;s economy by export of mostly high end comsumer and industrial goods, world export leader and all. Political wet dreams aside the method of choice is called &#8220;unit labor cost wonder&#8221;, a cheap and at the same time highly qualified workforce (eh wet dream time again). At the same time the domestic market is Germanys weak spot (in some aspects like low private debt a blessing). </p>
<p>It&#8217;s all trivia but it still defines where your currency has to go. In the long run at least from the German viewpoint this develops to the question &#8220;How can I sell the largest amount of cars amd powerplants world wide?&#8221;. The eu common market is a big part of that, equally because of customers and competitors. The sheer size of it may even start some phantasies of megalomania that no rational human can forsee but still transform into actual policy. From a somewhat sane point of view you don&#8217;t sabotage a common currency in an economic situation of mistrust and &#8220;race to the bottom&#8221; atmosphere. Now if wishes were horses dreamers could ride and the eurozone may even get away with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Iggy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/07/euro-falling-us-recovery-under-threat/#comment-42563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=6321#comment-42563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So is time to buy Euros with US $&#039;s or wait a few more months?
I have a trip planned in June. Do you expect ther Euro to continue its downward spiril?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is time to buy Euros with US $&#8217;s or wait a few more months?<br />
I have a trip planned in June. Do you expect ther Euro to continue its downward spiril?</p>
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