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	<title>Comments on: The Problem with Securitization</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alan McConnell</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-30139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan McConnell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-30139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;the high dependency of the U.S. on
securitization&quot; -- I am _very_ confused.
Why are we dependent on securitization?
And when did this dependency start?

I posted back in July to the effect that
money is IMPORTANT and should not be played
with.  I said then that we need experts, or
maybe we need non-experts, to tell us what
financial practices serve a useful social
purpose.  I can think of a few -- insurance
of tangible goods, mortgage loans, other
kinds of loans for business startups or
for business development -- but my list
doesn&#039;t reach as far as securitizations
in the Blackian sense(Bill Black called this
process fraud pure and simple, right?),
credit default swaps, and derivatives.
(What is &quot;notional value&quot;, anyway?)

Again: money is important, and games, defined
as financial actions with no social value,
should not be played with it.  And so I
ask the knowledgeable on this E-list: what
financial activities are of social value.
(I don&#039;t include financing golf clubs and
yacht basins in Greenwich CT as having
social value!)

Best wishes,

Alan McConnell in Silver Spring]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the high dependency of the U.S. on<br />
securitization&#8221; &#8212; I am _very_ confused.<br />
Why are we dependent on securitization?<br />
And when did this dependency start?</p>
<p>I posted back in July to the effect that<br />
money is IMPORTANT and should not be played<br />
with.  I said then that we need experts, or<br />
maybe we need non-experts, to tell us what<br />
financial practices serve a useful social<br />
purpose.  I can think of a few &#8212; insurance<br />
of tangible goods, mortgage loans, other<br />
kinds of loans for business startups or<br />
for business development &#8212; but my list<br />
doesn&#8217;t reach as far as securitizations<br />
in the Blackian sense(Bill Black called this<br />
process fraud pure and simple, right?),<br />
credit default swaps, and derivatives.<br />
(What is &#8220;notional value&#8221;, anyway?)</p>
<p>Again: money is important, and games, defined<br />
as financial actions with no social value,<br />
should not be played with it.  And so I<br />
ask the knowledgeable on this E-list: what<br />
financial activities are of social value.<br />
(I don&#8217;t include financing golf clubs and<br />
yacht basins in Greenwich CT as having<br />
social value!)</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Alan McConnell in Silver Spring</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-30106</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-30106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As bob dylan would say: &quot;how does it feel?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As bob dylan would say: &#8220;how does it feel?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sharonsj</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-30061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sharonsj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-30061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All this reminds me of those pleas for help for third-world countries--the kind where a $50 loan lets peasants weave rugs or make pots or grow herbs...any kind of small business to lift them out of poverty.  America is a banana republic, thanks to the banksters, and the only way the rest of will survive is to plant backyard gardens and sell cast-off Chinese trinkets at yard sales.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this reminds me of those pleas for help for third-world countries&#8211;the kind where a $50 loan lets peasants weave rugs or make pots or grow herbs&#8230;any kind of small business to lift them out of poverty.  America is a banana republic, thanks to the banksters, and the only way the rest of will survive is to plant backyard gardens and sell cast-off Chinese trinkets at yard sales.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And credit to where it&#039;s due...

http://blogsandwikis.bentley.edu/themoneyillusion/?p=2499#comment-8307]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And credit to where it&#8217;s due&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://blogsandwikis.bentley.edu/themoneyillusion/?p=2499#comment-8307" rel="nofollow">http://blogsandwikis.bentley.edu/themoneyillusion/?p=2499#comment-8307</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29931</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A fellow at another blog (&quot;Jon&quot;) pointed toward this data source in comments:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/

and notably the January report

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/200902/fullreport.pdf

This contains results from senior loan officers at major FDIC insured banks.  He notes that when asked why they were not making loans, they got the following responses:

A. “Possible reasons for tightening credit”
a. current or expected capital position (Not Important 73.5%)
b. less favorable economic conditions (Very Important 71.4%)
h. current or expected liquidity position (Not Important 87.8%)

Note the LAST - nearly 90% said their current or expected liquidity position was not important.  Nearly 75% said capital position not important.

In other words, the entire &quot;banks need better balance sheets to make loans&quot; explanation of the crisis (which was the justification for the TARP infusions) is limited - certainly it explained some of the crisis.  But by January, most banks had plenty of their OWN money to lend, yet didn&#039;t want to lend it to the same class of borrowers whom they previously supported...  

The so-called &quot;breakdown&quot; of the credit securitization markets reflects a return to reality...

In a sense, credit securities buyers are asking the obvious question: If banks (who have private information) are so eager to sell it, then why should I be so eager to buy it?  In the presence of that level of information asymmetry, no market can function.

And that is why banks existed in the first place!

In terms of real lending constraints by banks, consider these points:

1) If banks really needed the capital to make loans, why are they so eager to pay back TARP?

2) Why are banks currently sitting on the mother of all mountains of reserves?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fellow at another blog (&#8220;Jon&#8221;) pointed toward this data source in comments:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/" rel="nofollow">http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/</a></p>
<p>and notably the January report</p>
<p><a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/200902/fullreport.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/snloansurvey/200902/fullreport.pdf</a></p>
<p>This contains results from senior loan officers at major FDIC insured banks.  He notes that when asked why they were not making loans, they got the following responses:</p>
<p>A. “Possible reasons for tightening credit”<br />
a. current or expected capital position (Not Important 73.5%)<br />
b. less favorable economic conditions (Very Important 71.4%)<br />
h. current or expected liquidity position (Not Important 87.8%)</p>
<p>Note the LAST &#8211; nearly 90% said their current or expected liquidity position was not important.  Nearly 75% said capital position not important.</p>
<p>In other words, the entire &#8220;banks need better balance sheets to make loans&#8221; explanation of the crisis (which was the justification for the TARP infusions) is limited &#8211; certainly it explained some of the crisis.  But by January, most banks had plenty of their OWN money to lend, yet didn&#8217;t want to lend it to the same class of borrowers whom they previously supported&#8230;  </p>
<p>The so-called &#8220;breakdown&#8221; of the credit securitization markets reflects a return to reality&#8230;</p>
<p>In a sense, credit securities buyers are asking the obvious question: If banks (who have private information) are so eager to sell it, then why should I be so eager to buy it?  In the presence of that level of information asymmetry, no market can function.</p>
<p>And that is why banks existed in the first place!</p>
<p>In terms of real lending constraints by banks, consider these points:</p>
<p>1) If banks really needed the capital to make loans, why are they so eager to pay back TARP?</p>
<p>2) Why are banks currently sitting on the mother of all mountains of reserves?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dcb</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dcb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will put in a letter I wrote to the FT months ago. I would say it is critical that securitization markets don&#039;t open up again if we are going to have real growth. In summary credit growth above real gdp growth isn&#039;t good. I wrote this so long ago I can&#039;t recall. The fact that is still being debated shows wall streets frip on our economic policy. designed to help them and hurt us!!!
&gt; 
&gt; Dear Sir,
&gt; &gt; Miss Tett has written extensively about the credit
&gt; &gt; crisis
&gt; &gt; but once more fails to elucidate salient points
&gt; &gt; regarding
&gt; &gt; the issue of securitisation. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; She correctly points out that research from Pimco
&gt; &gt; states
&gt; &gt; that &quot;Until the 1980&#039;s
&gt; &gt; the expansion of nominal gross
&gt; &gt; domestic product tracked the volume of outstanding
&gt; &gt; private
&gt; &gt; credit closely. But since then credit has
&gt; &gt; dramatically
&gt; &gt; outstripped economic growth as securitisation took
&gt; &gt; hold&quot;.
&gt; &gt; Meaning credit growth beyond nominal growth rate does
&gt; &gt; not
&gt; &gt; lead to economic growth. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; According to Prof. Aswath Damadaran (NYU Stern), one
&gt; &gt; of
&gt; &gt; the
&gt; &gt; foremost experts of valuation today, the most
&gt; &gt; significant
&gt; &gt; input into a discounted cash flow model is the stable
&gt; &gt; growth
&gt; &gt; rate. This growth rate can be sustained in perpetuity
&gt; &gt; allowing us to estimate the value of all the cash
&gt; &gt; flows.
&gt; &gt; No
&gt; &gt; firm can grow forever at a rate higher that the
&gt; &gt; growth
&gt; &gt; rate
&gt; &gt; of the economy. So, the value all things can&#039;t
&gt; &gt; grow faster
&gt; &gt; than the economy (Damaodaran, Investment valuation,
&gt; &gt; Chapter
&gt; &gt; 12, 2002)
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; Therefore, at a certain point the growth of credit
&gt; &gt; must
&gt; &gt; become unstable when it
&gt; &gt; is rises faster that the rate of
&gt; &gt; growth in the economy. This is essentially the nature
&gt; &gt; of
&gt; &gt; our
&gt; &gt; financial crisis. Valuations based on the growth of
&gt; &gt; credit
&gt; &gt; (leverage) were not able to be supported by the
&gt; &gt; nominal
&gt; &gt; growth rate of the economy. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; There are additional features to our economy that
&gt; &gt; have
&gt; &gt; happened since securitisation has taken off. The
&gt; &gt; stock
&gt; &gt; market has grown faster than the economy, CEO pay has
&gt; &gt; gone
&gt; &gt; from 30X to 300X of the average American worker, real
&gt; &gt; wages
&gt; &gt; have fallen, and wealth disparity has reached heights
&gt; &gt; not
&gt; &gt; seen since the great depression. All of these issues
&gt; &gt; are
&gt; &gt; in
&gt; &gt; fact related. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; Securitisation has allowed those whose pay is based
&gt; &gt; upon
&gt; &gt; leverage (credit)to increase many times faster than
&gt; &gt; the
&gt; &gt; growth of the real economy and the vast majority of
&gt; &gt; workers.
&gt; &gt; Securitisation has allowed the experts on credit risk
&gt; &gt; and
&gt; &gt; valuation (bankers) to
&gt; &gt; off load these risks onto the
&gt; &gt; public.
&gt; &gt; This has created instability (highly distorted
&gt; &gt; valuations)and a moral hazard where society bears the
&gt; &gt; brunt
&gt; &gt; of costs, while bankers and CEOs reap the benefits.
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; When Ms. Tett reports that respected figures such as
&gt; &gt; William Dudley of the NY Fed consider it paramount
&gt; &gt; that
&gt; &gt; securitisation markets get jump started if we are to
&gt; &gt; recover
&gt; &gt; she fails to mention that Mr. Dudley, as a former
&gt; &gt; managing
&gt; &gt; director of Goldman Sachs, and the majority of people
&gt; &gt; who
&gt; &gt; are calling for this to happen are the very people
&gt; &gt; who
&gt; &gt; have
&gt; &gt; benefited the most from securitisatiion. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; I hope the American people will wake up and see that
&gt; &gt; efforts to jump start securitisation are nothing more
&gt; &gt; than
&gt; &gt; an attempt by those who caused the crisis to restart
&gt; &gt; the
&gt; &gt; system that allowed them to reap the rewards and off
&gt; &gt; load
&gt; &gt; the risks of that system onto others. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; With these facts in mind one must wonder what the
&gt; &gt; point of
&gt; &gt; the Feds easy credit (money)policy are. Are they
&gt; &gt; benefiting
&gt; &gt; society? Not very much. Are the benefiting wall
&gt; street
&gt; &gt; and
&gt; &gt; the banking class? Well, Goldman Sachs profits answer
&gt; &gt; that
&gt; &gt; along with a stock market that does not reflect
&gt; &gt; economic
&gt; &gt; realities. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; It also answers the inflation issue. Growth in money
&gt; &gt; supply
&gt; &gt; faster than the ability of society to use it (nominal
&gt; &gt; growth
&gt; &gt; rate) has to result in inflation or asset price
&gt; &gt; bubbles. 
&gt; &gt; 
&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will put in a letter I wrote to the FT months ago. I would say it is critical that securitization markets don&#8217;t open up again if we are going to have real growth. In summary credit growth above real gdp growth isn&#8217;t good. I wrote this so long ago I can&#8217;t recall. The fact that is still being debated shows wall streets frip on our economic policy. designed to help them and hurt us!!!<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; Dear Sir,<br />
&gt; &gt; Miss Tett has written extensively about the credit<br />
&gt; &gt; crisis<br />
&gt; &gt; but once more fails to elucidate salient points<br />
&gt; &gt; regarding<br />
&gt; &gt; the issue of securitisation.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; She correctly points out that research from Pimco<br />
&gt; &gt; states<br />
&gt; &gt; that &#8220;Until the 1980&#8242;s<br />
&gt; &gt; the expansion of nominal gross<br />
&gt; &gt; domestic product tracked the volume of outstanding<br />
&gt; &gt; private<br />
&gt; &gt; credit closely. But since then credit has<br />
&gt; &gt; dramatically<br />
&gt; &gt; outstripped economic growth as securitisation took<br />
&gt; &gt; hold&#8221;.<br />
&gt; &gt; Meaning credit growth beyond nominal growth rate does<br />
&gt; &gt; not<br />
&gt; &gt; lead to economic growth.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; According to Prof. Aswath Damadaran (NYU Stern), one<br />
&gt; &gt; of<br />
&gt; &gt; the<br />
&gt; &gt; foremost experts of valuation today, the most<br />
&gt; &gt; significant<br />
&gt; &gt; input into a discounted cash flow model is the stable<br />
&gt; &gt; growth<br />
&gt; &gt; rate. This growth rate can be sustained in perpetuity<br />
&gt; &gt; allowing us to estimate the value of all the cash<br />
&gt; &gt; flows.<br />
&gt; &gt; No<br />
&gt; &gt; firm can grow forever at a rate higher that the<br />
&gt; &gt; growth<br />
&gt; &gt; rate<br />
&gt; &gt; of the economy. So, the value all things can&#8217;t<br />
&gt; &gt; grow faster<br />
&gt; &gt; than the economy (Damaodaran, Investment valuation,<br />
&gt; &gt; Chapter<br />
&gt; &gt; 12, 2002)<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; Therefore, at a certain point the growth of credit<br />
&gt; &gt; must<br />
&gt; &gt; become unstable when it<br />
&gt; &gt; is rises faster that the rate of<br />
&gt; &gt; growth in the economy. This is essentially the nature<br />
&gt; &gt; of<br />
&gt; &gt; our<br />
&gt; &gt; financial crisis. Valuations based on the growth of<br />
&gt; &gt; credit<br />
&gt; &gt; (leverage) were not able to be supported by the<br />
&gt; &gt; nominal<br />
&gt; &gt; growth rate of the economy.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; There are additional features to our economy that<br />
&gt; &gt; have<br />
&gt; &gt; happened since securitisation has taken off. The<br />
&gt; &gt; stock<br />
&gt; &gt; market has grown faster than the economy, CEO pay has<br />
&gt; &gt; gone<br />
&gt; &gt; from 30X to 300X of the average American worker, real<br />
&gt; &gt; wages<br />
&gt; &gt; have fallen, and wealth disparity has reached heights<br />
&gt; &gt; not<br />
&gt; &gt; seen since the great depression. All of these issues<br />
&gt; &gt; are<br />
&gt; &gt; in<br />
&gt; &gt; fact related.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; Securitisation has allowed those whose pay is based<br />
&gt; &gt; upon<br />
&gt; &gt; leverage (credit)to increase many times faster than<br />
&gt; &gt; the<br />
&gt; &gt; growth of the real economy and the vast majority of<br />
&gt; &gt; workers.<br />
&gt; &gt; Securitisation has allowed the experts on credit risk<br />
&gt; &gt; and<br />
&gt; &gt; valuation (bankers) to<br />
&gt; &gt; off load these risks onto the<br />
&gt; &gt; public.<br />
&gt; &gt; This has created instability (highly distorted<br />
&gt; &gt; valuations)and a moral hazard where society bears the<br />
&gt; &gt; brunt<br />
&gt; &gt; of costs, while bankers and CEOs reap the benefits.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; When Ms. Tett reports that respected figures such as<br />
&gt; &gt; William Dudley of the NY Fed consider it paramount<br />
&gt; &gt; that<br />
&gt; &gt; securitisation markets get jump started if we are to<br />
&gt; &gt; recover<br />
&gt; &gt; she fails to mention that Mr. Dudley, as a former<br />
&gt; &gt; managing<br />
&gt; &gt; director of Goldman Sachs, and the majority of people<br />
&gt; &gt; who<br />
&gt; &gt; are calling for this to happen are the very people<br />
&gt; &gt; who<br />
&gt; &gt; have<br />
&gt; &gt; benefited the most from securitisatiion.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; I hope the American people will wake up and see that<br />
&gt; &gt; efforts to jump start securitisation are nothing more<br />
&gt; &gt; than<br />
&gt; &gt; an attempt by those who caused the crisis to restart<br />
&gt; &gt; the<br />
&gt; &gt; system that allowed them to reap the rewards and off<br />
&gt; &gt; load<br />
&gt; &gt; the risks of that system onto others.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; With these facts in mind one must wonder what the<br />
&gt; &gt; point of<br />
&gt; &gt; the Feds easy credit (money)policy are. Are they<br />
&gt; &gt; benefiting<br />
&gt; &gt; society? Not very much. Are the benefiting wall<br />
&gt; street<br />
&gt; &gt; and<br />
&gt; &gt; the banking class? Well, Goldman Sachs profits answer<br />
&gt; &gt; that<br />
&gt; &gt; along with a stock market that does not reflect<br />
&gt; &gt; economic<br />
&gt; &gt; realities.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; It also answers the inflation issue. Growth in money<br />
&gt; &gt; supply<br />
&gt; &gt; faster than the ability of society to use it (nominal<br />
&gt; &gt; growth<br />
&gt; &gt; rate) has to result in inflation or asset price<br />
&gt; &gt; bubbles.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29851</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 06:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some people say that Solomon was a pretty wise man.

Proverbs 11:15  He who is surety for a stranger will suffer, But one who hates being surety is secure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people say that Solomon was a pretty wise man.</p>
<p>Proverbs 11:15  He who is surety for a stranger will suffer, But one who hates being surety is secure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29848</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 05:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The way in which these markets are currently responding is indicative of a mindset (addiction) to the &quot;new&quot; way to make money lending money, by securitizing, so you can earn excessive fees and relend the same money over and over again.  Kind of like the heroin addict who experiences less and less of a &quot;high&quot; each time they shoot up, so they do it more and more until finally reaching the point of overdose and death.  They don&#039;t believe, once they take the first hit that it is possible to capture that same high ever again without the drug.

I see the same response in the financial community.  Like the addicts we should put them in rehab, that is, take away all support, FED and otherwise, and let them try to find a new way or die trying.  TARP was just a way to postpone the DT&#039;s, and the FED will stop soon, because they can&#039;t go on being the securities purchaser of last resort.  Not only is it unhealthy, but it could be fatal, not only for the lenders, but for the global economy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way in which these markets are currently responding is indicative of a mindset (addiction) to the &#8220;new&#8221; way to make money lending money, by securitizing, so you can earn excessive fees and relend the same money over and over again.  Kind of like the heroin addict who experiences less and less of a &#8220;high&#8221; each time they shoot up, so they do it more and more until finally reaching the point of overdose and death.  They don&#8217;t believe, once they take the first hit that it is possible to capture that same high ever again without the drug.</p>
<p>I see the same response in the financial community.  Like the addicts we should put them in rehab, that is, take away all support, FED and otherwise, and let them try to find a new way or die trying.  TARP was just a way to postpone the DT&#8217;s, and the FED will stop soon, because they can&#8217;t go on being the securities purchaser of last resort.  Not only is it unhealthy, but it could be fatal, not only for the lenders, but for the global economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Carson Gross</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carson Gross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really?  Regulation is going to fix this?

Really?

What we have is banks, who know there are no credit-worthy borrowers, unable to sell securities to investors who have just found out that, over the last twenty years, banks have shopped out all the credit-worthy borrowers and have been passing loans off to people with no hope of paying them back.  The investors, quite correctly, don&#039;t feel like playing this game anymore.

If the banks want to hedge their loans, let them buy insurance from someone who can audit their books and, apparently, better asses the risks of loans than they can.

I can see securitization starting back up once the fraud convictions start rolling in on the rating agencies and investment banks who slopped out sh*t as triplety-A plus rated paper.  Till then, well:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SqArWZUi5eI/AAAAAAAAGSA/BbnOub6fGXg/s1600-h/FedAssetsSept09.jpg

Trust is a hell of a thing to get back, once it&#039;s lost.

Cheers,
Carson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really?  Regulation is going to fix this?</p>
<p>Really?</p>
<p>What we have is banks, who know there are no credit-worthy borrowers, unable to sell securities to investors who have just found out that, over the last twenty years, banks have shopped out all the credit-worthy borrowers and have been passing loans off to people with no hope of paying them back.  The investors, quite correctly, don&#8217;t feel like playing this game anymore.</p>
<p>If the banks want to hedge their loans, let them buy insurance from someone who can audit their books and, apparently, better asses the risks of loans than they can.</p>
<p>I can see securitization starting back up once the fraud convictions start rolling in on the rating agencies and investment banks who slopped out sh*t as triplety-A plus rated paper.  Till then, well:</p>
<p><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SqArWZUi5eI/AAAAAAAAGSA/BbnOub6fGXg/s1600-h/FedAssetsSept09.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SqArWZUi5eI/AAAAAAAAGSA/BbnOub6fGXg/s1600-h/FedAssetsSept09.jpg</a></p>
<p>Trust is a hell of a thing to get back, once it&#8217;s lost.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Carson</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah - good point.

I wonder if it also corresponds to the conversion of the investment banks to publicly held companies? (I don&#039;t really know...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah &#8211; good point.</p>
<p>I wonder if it also corresponds to the conversion of the investment banks to publicly held companies? (I don&#8217;t really know&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: bill n</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bill n]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 01:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I posted this as comment #31000 on Krugman&#039;s post on this issue.  Here, I&#039;m moving up to #17000.

- Banks don’t want to lend to real people - originate it and sell it is much easier and much much more profitable.
- Banks don’t know how to lend: The people who used to do this - 10 or 15 years ago - have gone away. The staff is new. See above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this as comment #31000 on Krugman&#8217;s post on this issue.  Here, I&#8217;m moving up to #17000.</p>
<p>- Banks don’t want to lend to real people &#8211; originate it and sell it is much easier and much much more profitable.<br />
- Banks don’t know how to lend: The people who used to do this &#8211; 10 or 15 years ago &#8211; have gone away. The staff is new. See above.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Palanza</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Palanza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 01:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note that 30 years ago is when a proper book-keeping began to disappear among the then merging banks. Now that you have giant banks that are running gambling casinos. A gambling bet will not post in a proper book-keeping framework. That is why real casinos have to use chips to tally their profit loss. Perhaps that tells you something, Ian?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that 30 years ago is when a proper book-keeping began to disappear among the then merging banks. Now that you have giant banks that are running gambling casinos. A gambling bet will not post in a proper book-keeping framework. That is why real casinos have to use chips to tally their profit loss. Perhaps that tells you something, Ian?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Palanza</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Palanza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 01:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yakkis you are on track to an important innovation. The only asset that the local culture has not been robbed of yet is their labor. So in place of getting paid for their labor let the carpenters and bricklayers turn their labor into mortgage money on the houses.

You will, however, need a better book-keeping framework to track the value invested and the rights assigned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yakkis you are on track to an important innovation. The only asset that the local culture has not been robbed of yet is their labor. So in place of getting paid for their labor let the carpenters and bricklayers turn their labor into mortgage money on the houses.</p>
<p>You will, however, need a better book-keeping framework to track the value invested and the rights assigned.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam K.</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam K.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First of all, this has been the case for non-agency mortgages for a while. It would be great to have the GSEs release loan level information, but being able to track them is not the main issue. 

First of all, for much of the outstanding non-prime loans, much of the credit information needed to value the loans is not available to investors, and there are many privacy issues since what you really need is information related to other debt held by the same borrower (e.g. credit cards, auto loans, etc.) 

Also, the underwriting standards are all over the place depending on what vintage you look at. It&#039;s pretty naive to assume that being able to track something via an ID is sufficient for doing anything useful except accounting and some really basic credit metrics.

The structure of the securities is an issue to some extent, but again, if you can&#039;t reasonable approximate future loan cashflows you are screwed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, this has been the case for non-agency mortgages for a while. It would be great to have the GSEs release loan level information, but being able to track them is not the main issue. </p>
<p>First of all, for much of the outstanding non-prime loans, much of the credit information needed to value the loans is not available to investors, and there are many privacy issues since what you really need is information related to other debt held by the same borrower (e.g. credit cards, auto loans, etc.) </p>
<p>Also, the underwriting standards are all over the place depending on what vintage you look at. It&#8217;s pretty naive to assume that being able to track something via an ID is sufficient for doing anything useful except accounting and some really basic credit metrics.</p>
<p>The structure of the securities is an issue to some extent, but again, if you can&#8217;t reasonable approximate future loan cashflows you are screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethan</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/07/securitization-bubble/#comment-29821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ethan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5178#comment-29821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An important factor that most commentators seem to ignore is the banks&#039; behavior during the crisis and its potential effect on would-be (and have-been) investors. We all know that banks data-mined and rating-shopped to mischaracterize--in the most legally acceptable way--the quality of loans they packaged. But what many forget is the banks&#039; treatment of the buyers of those loans during the crisis. A significant number of the buyers of securitized loans used margin. Senior secured corporate debt, for instance, did not offer sufficient spreads to attract significant third-party capital without utilizing portfolio leverage. Fortunately, the models worked. Historical volatility was low. Diversification further reduced the apparent risk. Even lower-risk funds bought the loans at 3-5x leverage. And this pattern of analysis played out across the securitization market.

Then the banks changed the game. As underwriting dropped off the table, and residential real estate losses mounted, volume in the secondary market for securitized loans plummeted. This environment offered an interesting trade. By selling a tiny sliver of a specific security (say a senior loan secured by hard assets worth around 70% of the outstanding debt) at a severely depressed price (say 15 cents on the dollar) a bank could force margin calls on investors who had borrowed money to buy the loan. Some investors in specific issues would find themselves unable to meet the calls, and they would hand their portfolios over to the banks. 100% loss. Of course, the investors&#039; models had not accounted for performing loans trading significantly below their recovery value, and, in fact, no real holders of the assets were willing to sell them at those prices. But the banks were-- in very small amounts. And they expected the majority of those loans to return to par. Oh well. Mark to market. Those are the breaks. This is Capitalist America, friend, not Communist China.

Any sentient investor would attach a higher discount factor to future securitized loan purchases after this experience-- more because many are disinclined to lean heavily on unreliable, private portfolio leverage... Trust was important to this marketplace, and it should be gone (of course, many things that should be true are not...).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An important factor that most commentators seem to ignore is the banks&#8217; behavior during the crisis and its potential effect on would-be (and have-been) investors. We all know that banks data-mined and rating-shopped to mischaracterize&#8211;in the most legally acceptable way&#8211;the quality of loans they packaged. But what many forget is the banks&#8217; treatment of the buyers of those loans during the crisis. A significant number of the buyers of securitized loans used margin. Senior secured corporate debt, for instance, did not offer sufficient spreads to attract significant third-party capital without utilizing portfolio leverage. Fortunately, the models worked. Historical volatility was low. Diversification further reduced the apparent risk. Even lower-risk funds bought the loans at 3-5x leverage. And this pattern of analysis played out across the securitization market.</p>
<p>Then the banks changed the game. As underwriting dropped off the table, and residential real estate losses mounted, volume in the secondary market for securitized loans plummeted. This environment offered an interesting trade. By selling a tiny sliver of a specific security (say a senior loan secured by hard assets worth around 70% of the outstanding debt) at a severely depressed price (say 15 cents on the dollar) a bank could force margin calls on investors who had borrowed money to buy the loan. Some investors in specific issues would find themselves unable to meet the calls, and they would hand their portfolios over to the banks. 100% loss. Of course, the investors&#8217; models had not accounted for performing loans trading significantly below their recovery value, and, in fact, no real holders of the assets were willing to sell them at those prices. But the banks were&#8211; in very small amounts. And they expected the majority of those loans to return to par. Oh well. Mark to market. Those are the breaks. This is Capitalist America, friend, not Communist China.</p>
<p>Any sentient investor would attach a higher discount factor to future securitized loan purchases after this experience&#8211; more because many are disinclined to lean heavily on unreliable, private portfolio leverage&#8230; Trust was important to this marketplace, and it should be gone (of course, many things that should be true are not&#8230;).</p>
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