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	<title>Comments on: Bank of America $4 Billion, Taxpayers $425 Million</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-29044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-29044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow.  There is so much to say here, but I will only raise one point.

The government&#039;s **implicit** guarantee -- regardless of any argument regarding the status of an &quot;official agreement&quot; -- resulted in tremendous increases in BoA&#039;s market capitalization (let&#039;s face it, investors bought Big Bank stocks because of the feeling that the government would not walk away from the banks).  Not to mention how the behavior of the banks over the past 12 months was driven by their own feeling that the government stood by their side with a fire hose at the ready

And now BofA can just walk away and pay a fraction of the true value of a lifeline.

In any other set of circumstances, the Department of Justice would feel compelled to sniff around the area of this &quot;deal.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  There is so much to say here, but I will only raise one point.</p>
<p>The government&#8217;s **implicit** guarantee &#8212; regardless of any argument regarding the status of an &#8220;official agreement&#8221; &#8212; resulted in tremendous increases in BoA&#8217;s market capitalization (let&#8217;s face it, investors bought Big Bank stocks because of the feeling that the government would not walk away from the banks).  Not to mention how the behavior of the banks over the past 12 months was driven by their own feeling that the government stood by their side with a fire hose at the ready</p>
<p>And now BofA can just walk away and pay a fraction of the true value of a lifeline.</p>
<p>In any other set of circumstances, the Department of Justice would feel compelled to sniff around the area of this &#8220;deal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, get a life.  If you or we believe ANYTHING that the government tells us, we are just saps and dupes.  The Oligarchy in just one more of a series of incredibly profitable hours, at our expense.  If mythical guarantees work, why even bother with real ones, but rather let scenarios play out.  If they go in the bank&#039;s favor, wonderful, if they don&#039;t the government will prop them up (enen if nothing has been signed.

In the real world, I hope that Iran gets nuclear and blows all of us up.  What&#039;s the point in caring, if we are, in the long run, completely and utterly powerless.  It appears that we have far more to fear from our banks than all of the Islamic terrorists ever born.  Ultimately they and their lobbyists, in cahoots with our elected (and appointed) officials, are more than happy to blow up our worlds.  Or as T. S. Elliot famously said in his famous &quot;Love Song..&quot;, &quot;this is the way the world ends, this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper.&quot;

But, y&#039;all hang in there and pray, because prayer will work just as well as anything or nothing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, get a life.  If you or we believe ANYTHING that the government tells us, we are just saps and dupes.  The Oligarchy in just one more of a series of incredibly profitable hours, at our expense.  If mythical guarantees work, why even bother with real ones, but rather let scenarios play out.  If they go in the bank&#8217;s favor, wonderful, if they don&#8217;t the government will prop them up (enen if nothing has been signed.</p>
<p>In the real world, I hope that Iran gets nuclear and blows all of us up.  What&#8217;s the point in caring, if we are, in the long run, completely and utterly powerless.  It appears that we have far more to fear from our banks than all of the Islamic terrorists ever born.  Ultimately they and their lobbyists, in cahoots with our elected (and appointed) officials, are more than happy to blow up our worlds.  Or as T. S. Elliot famously said in his famous &#8220;Love Song..&#8221;, &#8220;this is the way the world ends, this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, y&#8217;all hang in there and pray, because prayer will work just as well as anything or nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: justawoman</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justawoman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think all of it is just absurd! It all boils down to the government, actually the taxpayers, being ripped off once again by good ole Bank of America, and now they can continue to charge their outrageous finance charges and watch as the people who had no control over what the government did with their money(bailout), take a nose dive with their once very good credit and just push the economy and the people of our nation further into despair and economic hardships!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all of it is just absurd! It all boils down to the government, actually the taxpayers, being ripped off once again by good ole Bank of America, and now they can continue to charge their outrageous finance charges and watch as the people who had no control over what the government did with their money(bailout), take a nose dive with their once very good credit and just push the economy and the people of our nation further into despair and economic hardships!!</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What infuriates me is that B of A is STILL benefiting from the guarantee. It is surely still underwater if its assets are properly valued, yet it has been revealed that the government will not allow it to fail. Now, if we had in place an effective FDIC-like procedure for the TBTF&#039;s in the event of another untoward crisis, things might be different. As it is, announcing it doesn&#039;t need the guarantee any more is a pretty meaningless gesture by B of A. If B of A is really getting no continued benefit, they should have no objection to the government issuing a statement that next time, B of A is on its own.  In fact, if it really wanted to, the government could probably use the threat of such a statement to force B of A to live up to the original agreement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What infuriates me is that B of A is STILL benefiting from the guarantee. It is surely still underwater if its assets are properly valued, yet it has been revealed that the government will not allow it to fail. Now, if we had in place an effective FDIC-like procedure for the TBTF&#8217;s in the event of another untoward crisis, things might be different. As it is, announcing it doesn&#8217;t need the guarantee any more is a pretty meaningless gesture by B of A. If B of A is really getting no continued benefit, they should have no objection to the government issuing a statement that next time, B of A is on its own.  In fact, if it really wanted to, the government could probably use the threat of such a statement to force B of A to live up to the original agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: hmf</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hmf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope you turn this into a NYT op-ed.  Especially when you contrast the $4b to BAC w/ the recently announced WH cost-cutting contest http://bit.ly/VJ8pW &amp; it&#039;s difficult to have much confidence or faith in this adm.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you turn this into a NYT op-ed.  Especially when you contrast the $4b to BAC w/ the recently announced WH cost-cutting contest <a href="http://bit.ly/VJ8pW" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/VJ8pW</a> &amp; it&#8217;s difficult to have much confidence or faith in this adm.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tippygolden: &quot;What I find interesting is an American culture of “gaming” the system. . . .

&quot;The value system is entirely mixed up here.&quot;

You must understand that only members of The Club are allowed to game the system. In fact, that is a major perk of being a member of The Club. The Club is the system, and the system is The Club, so it is not really gaming the system. 

As for the general populace, they exist to support the system, and the system supports them in return, albeit at a subsistence level. 

The system is global, and is known to the cognoscenti as La Sistema. La Sistema holds the world economy together, and keeps it from disintegrating into chaos and anarchy. Viva La Sistema! La Sistema de los Ricos, por los Ricos, para los Ricos. 

;) (I think.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tippygolden: &#8220;What I find interesting is an American culture of “gaming” the system. . . .</p>
<p>&#8220;The value system is entirely mixed up here.&#8221;</p>
<p>You must understand that only members of The Club are allowed to game the system. In fact, that is a major perk of being a member of The Club. The Club is the system, and the system is The Club, so it is not really gaming the system. </p>
<p>As for the general populace, they exist to support the system, and the system supports them in return, albeit at a subsistence level. </p>
<p>The system is global, and is known to the cognoscenti as La Sistema. La Sistema holds the world economy together, and keeps it from disintegrating into chaos and anarchy. Viva La Sistema! La Sistema de los Ricos, por los Ricos, para los Ricos. </p>
<p>;) (I think.)</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted K: &quot;Basically you have people predicting the extremes so they can proclaim themselves geniuses later. Apparently the most likely scenario—very low inflation, isn’t sexy enough for them. It’s as simple as this, sellers are not going to lower prices now, and you can’t raise prices with high unemployment, not on a large “basket” of goods anyway. Not unless you foresee something like war.&quot;

This is no prediction, but I fear that the most likely scenario is low inflation via defaults and bankruptcies, leading to a double dip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted K: &#8220;Basically you have people predicting the extremes so they can proclaim themselves geniuses later. Apparently the most likely scenario—very low inflation, isn’t sexy enough for them. It’s as simple as this, sellers are not going to lower prices now, and you can’t raise prices with high unemployment, not on a large “basket” of goods anyway. Not unless you foresee something like war.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is no prediction, but I fear that the most likely scenario is low inflation via defaults and bankruptcies, leading to a double dip.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted K: &quot;But you know, there WAS a time, when the Wall Street Journal would have taken the lead on story like this, having investigative reporters hunting leaks, hunting paper trails, digging for details, instead of sitting around and letting the New York Times bring us the dirty details.&quot;

There was a time when the Wall Street Journal was the best paper in America. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted K: &#8220;But you know, there WAS a time, when the Wall Street Journal would have taken the lead on story like this, having investigative reporters hunting leaks, hunting paper trails, digging for details, instead of sitting around and letting the New York Times bring us the dirty details.&#8221;</p>
<p>There was a time when the Wall Street Journal was the best paper in America. </p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[anne: &quot;CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW INVESTMENT BANKERS WHO GET PAID VAST SUMS OF MONEY TO BE THE BRIGHTEST BOYS IN THE ROOM CAN FIND THEMSELVES SHORT $15 bil in one quarter?&quot;

When I first heard the phrase, &quot;the smartest guys in the room&quot;, I thought it was damning with faint praise. Later I found out that it was praising with faint praise. However, as things have unfolded, I think my original interpretation was correct. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anne: &#8220;CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW INVESTMENT BANKERS WHO GET PAID VAST SUMS OF MONEY TO BE THE BRIGHTEST BOYS IN THE ROOM CAN FIND THEMSELVES SHORT $15 bil in one quarter?&#8221;</p>
<p>When I first heard the phrase, &#8220;the smartest guys in the room&#8221;, I thought it was damning with faint praise. Later I found out that it was praising with faint praise. However, as things have unfolded, I think my original interpretation was correct. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: cedar</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cedar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted K    I believe you are considering the prognosis of rampant inflation secondary to supply/demand/price tugs in the marketplace?  Perhaps the prognosticators are suggesting inflation secondary to a currency event.  The slow but deliberate devaluation of the dollar as desirable to decrease the real cost of future debt repayment + the increasing desire of several foreign countries- not the least of whom includes the BRIC countries to replace the dollar as reserve currency through a prolonged but systematic approach to move out of the dollar that is already quite neatly in place exemplified by settling trades in yuan, buying as many natural resources &amp; upstream companies as possible in USD, buying as much gold as the IMF will &quot;sell&quot;, and so on.

This defacto &quot;agreement&quot; between the FED &amp; BoA is enangering but not surprising.  It will be interesting to see who benefits from this arrangement in 5 years- who moves to what positions, board appointments, lucrative consulting contracts, on &amp; on.
The one group we ALL know who will NOT benefit will be the taxpayer.

I appreciate the discussion on contract law as it may apply in this instance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted K    I believe you are considering the prognosis of rampant inflation secondary to supply/demand/price tugs in the marketplace?  Perhaps the prognosticators are suggesting inflation secondary to a currency event.  The slow but deliberate devaluation of the dollar as desirable to decrease the real cost of future debt repayment + the increasing desire of several foreign countries- not the least of whom includes the BRIC countries to replace the dollar as reserve currency through a prolonged but systematic approach to move out of the dollar that is already quite neatly in place exemplified by settling trades in yuan, buying as many natural resources &amp; upstream companies as possible in USD, buying as much gold as the IMF will &#8220;sell&#8221;, and so on.</p>
<p>This defacto &#8220;agreement&#8221; between the FED &amp; BoA is enangering but not surprising.  It will be interesting to see who benefits from this arrangement in 5 years- who moves to what positions, board appointments, lucrative consulting contracts, on &amp; on.<br />
The one group we ALL know who will NOT benefit will be the taxpayer.</p>
<p>I appreciate the discussion on contract law as it may apply in this instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Perma B</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Perma B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this hole market is a ponzi scheme, check out this article http://seekingalpha.com/article/163213-ten-reasons-for-an-imminent-stock-market-crash its pretty good on all the stuff that&#039;s going on]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this hole market is a ponzi scheme, check out this article <a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/163213-ten-reasons-for-an-imminent-stock-market-crash" rel="nofollow">http://seekingalpha.com/article/163213-ten-reasons-for-an-imminent-stock-market-crash</a> its pretty good on all the stuff that&#8217;s going on</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Kwak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two answers:

1. Yes, that&#039;s the way it should have been. $4 billion was the premium - if the gov&#039;t got it in cash or stock, it&#039;s the same thing. B of A still had to pay 20 bp on the commitment, and OIS + 300 bp if it actually used the guarantee.

2. In practice, the terms of all those preferred stock investments say that Treasury can decide whether the bank can buy the stock back or not. So that would also have become a negotiating point. But I think my answer #1 is the way it should have been.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two answers:</p>
<p>1. Yes, that&#8217;s the way it should have been. $4 billion was the premium &#8211; if the gov&#8217;t got it in cash or stock, it&#8217;s the same thing. B of A still had to pay 20 bp on the commitment, and OIS + 300 bp if it actually used the guarantee.</p>
<p>2. In practice, the terms of all those preferred stock investments say that Treasury can decide whether the bank can buy the stock back or not. So that would also have become a negotiating point. But I think my answer #1 is the way it should have been.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Kwak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To be fair, if that is the right word, B of A&#039;s Q1 proxy statement does say that the deal with the government had not yet been closed. So it was out there. But no one picked up on it that I know of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, if that is the right word, B of A&#8217;s Q1 proxy statement does say that the deal with the government had not yet been closed. So it was out there. But no one picked up on it that I know of.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28894</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Kwak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, that was what I was thinking, but I failed to spell it out clearly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, that was what I was thinking, but I failed to spell it out clearly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tippygolden</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/23/bank-of-america-4-billion-taxpayers-425-million/#comment-28893</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tippygolden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=5059#comment-28893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What I find interesting is an American culture of &quot;gaming&quot; the system.

It seems the financial elites have carte blanche to game the system it operates in. But the argument against health care reform is sometimes based on the hypothetical and real &quot;slackers&quot; will game a health benefits funded by taxation.

So it seems the financial elites get to game the system. The for-profit health business gets to game the system. But the middle and working class are asked (some are ideologically convinced) they must hold the line against healthcare delivery to the allegedly-undeserving minions.

The value system is entirely mixed up here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find interesting is an American culture of &#8220;gaming&#8221; the system.</p>
<p>It seems the financial elites have carte blanche to game the system it operates in. But the argument against health care reform is sometimes based on the hypothetical and real &#8220;slackers&#8221; will game a health benefits funded by taxation.</p>
<p>So it seems the financial elites get to game the system. The for-profit health business gets to game the system. But the middle and working class are asked (some are ideologically convinced) they must hold the line against healthcare delivery to the allegedly-undeserving minions.</p>
<p>The value system is entirely mixed up here.</p>
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