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	<title>Comments on: Revisionist History</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Lavrenti Beria</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26507</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lavrenti Beria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[fwm,

I&#039;m not sure when it is in anyone&#039;s experience with Geithner that they realize that he is simply the most loathsome maggot. I suspect its when they sense that he doesn&#039;t look at a questioner straight on. Add to that foreknowledge of his tax escapades and the impression is almost certainly clinched. 

Now that it&#039;s beginning to seem clear that there will be a second downleg to this crisis, one accompanied by increasing unemployment, bankrupcies, credit card defaults, foreclosures and one commercial real estate horror show or bank failure after another, look for public discontent eventually to blossom into large scale protest demonstrations and strikes. Its then that a frog like Geithner will need to concern himself with alibies rather than sophistry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fwm,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure when it is in anyone&#8217;s experience with Geithner that they realize that he is simply the most loathsome maggot. I suspect its when they sense that he doesn&#8217;t look at a questioner straight on. Add to that foreknowledge of his tax escapades and the impression is almost certainly clinched. </p>
<p>Now that it&#8217;s beginning to seem clear that there will be a second downleg to this crisis, one accompanied by increasing unemployment, bankrupcies, credit card defaults, foreclosures and one commercial real estate horror show or bank failure after another, look for public discontent eventually to blossom into large scale protest demonstrations and strikes. Its then that a frog like Geithner will need to concern himself with alibies rather than sophistry.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26499</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have banked with a non-profit credit union for over 20 years. Best rates on checking, credit cards. Is non-profit banking in our future? Is non-profit banking our salvation to this financial mess?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have banked with a non-profit credit union for over 20 years. Best rates on checking, credit cards. Is non-profit banking in our future? Is non-profit banking our salvation to this financial mess?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: CBS from the West</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CBS from the West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand how you can say that Nixon &quot;got away with it.&quot;  In the sense that he didn&#039;t go to prison, yes.  But this was a man who lived for power.  This was a man whose whole sense of identity revolved around power.  And he was ousted from the Presidency that he had struggled so long to win.  I think the impact of that on his &quot;soul&quot; must have been far more profound than any prison term could have been.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand how you can say that Nixon &#8220;got away with it.&#8221;  In the sense that he didn&#8217;t go to prison, yes.  But this was a man who lived for power.  This was a man whose whole sense of identity revolved around power.  And he was ousted from the Presidency that he had struggled so long to win.  I think the impact of that on his &#8220;soul&#8221; must have been far more profound than any prison term could have been.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But &quot;who&quot; created &quot;what&quot; problems anyway?  Fannie and Freddie went insolvent last September.  Is the problem that they went insolvent or that they had political connections to coerce taxpayer funds from Congress?  Absent the bailout, was insolvency even a problem?  Creditors make terrible investments and lose their money - is that a problem for anyone other than the creditor?  If it was insolvency, was it management&#039;s fault, or the fault of the regulator who was browbeaten for many years by Congress, who in turn were taking large campaign contributions from Fannie/Freddie executives?  Or was it mortgage holders with debts to service who stopped doing so?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But &#8220;who&#8221; created &#8220;what&#8221; problems anyway?  Fannie and Freddie went insolvent last September.  Is the problem that they went insolvent or that they had political connections to coerce taxpayer funds from Congress?  Absent the bailout, was insolvency even a problem?  Creditors make terrible investments and lose their money &#8211; is that a problem for anyone other than the creditor?  If it was insolvency, was it management&#8217;s fault, or the fault of the regulator who was browbeaten for many years by Congress, who in turn were taking large campaign contributions from Fannie/Freddie executives?  Or was it mortgage holders with debts to service who stopped doing so?</p>
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		<title>By: fwm</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fwm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geithner  we did &quot;...what we had to do..&quot;

Let me see if I have this correct:

1. Geithner was head of the New York Fed.
2. The Fed Act of 1913 was set up to ensure the 
   financial stability of banks.
3. The Fed Board of Governors  has twelve members;
   five are Fed regional bank presidents. Local banks 
   which are members of their regional Fed bank, own
   stock in the Fed regional bank, and receive a 6%
   annual dividend.
4  &quot;...Fed decisions do not have to be ratified by 
   the President or anyone else in the executive
   or legislative branch of government..&quot;
5. The Fed has unlimited funds to support the
   financial stability of banks.
6. The Fed failed to identify, never mind prevent, the
   greatest financial crisis since the great 
   depression. In fact, it was Fed policy to &quot;turn a 
   blind eye&quot; to developing excesses, preferring 
   instead to cleanup after a financial system crash.
7. The Fed woke up one morning and realized the 
   financial system was about to collapse.

 Was the Fed worried? Sure they were anxious, and 
 some had sleepless nights; but its not like the Fed
 was going to lose their job or a bed to sleep in.

 The Fed has a blank check, and after all its just
 money - taxpayer money .Besides,the crisis allows
 the Fed to demonstrate its considerable technical
 skills in financial markets, and who knows you may
 even be hailed as a &quot;savior&quot;.

 So what is a Fed guy to do in this situation?. You
 spend the taxpayer money , and try to put the sorry 
 episode behind you as quickly as possible. Besides,
 congress gave you the power , and all of your 
 colleagues - Paulson,Bernanke,Geithner,bank presidents
 ,European Central Bankers, are telling you this is 
  the best course of action.

 It is like Geithner says -you do what you gotta do.
 Next crisis around, you will do whats right. Did you
 notice that we never seem to get around to doing 
 whats right- just whats expedient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geithner  we did &#8220;&#8230;what we had to do..&#8221;</p>
<p>Let me see if I have this correct:</p>
<p>1. Geithner was head of the New York Fed.<br />
2. The Fed Act of 1913 was set up to ensure the<br />
   financial stability of banks.<br />
3. The Fed Board of Governors  has twelve members;<br />
   five are Fed regional bank presidents. Local banks<br />
   which are members of their regional Fed bank, own<br />
   stock in the Fed regional bank, and receive a 6%<br />
   annual dividend.<br />
4  &#8220;&#8230;Fed decisions do not have to be ratified by<br />
   the President or anyone else in the executive<br />
   or legislative branch of government..&#8221;<br />
5. The Fed has unlimited funds to support the<br />
   financial stability of banks.<br />
6. The Fed failed to identify, never mind prevent, the<br />
   greatest financial crisis since the great<br />
   depression. In fact, it was Fed policy to &#8220;turn a<br />
   blind eye&#8221; to developing excesses, preferring<br />
   instead to cleanup after a financial system crash.<br />
7. The Fed woke up one morning and realized the<br />
   financial system was about to collapse.</p>
<p> Was the Fed worried? Sure they were anxious, and<br />
 some had sleepless nights; but its not like the Fed<br />
 was going to lose their job or a bed to sleep in.</p>
<p> The Fed has a blank check, and after all its just<br />
 money &#8211; taxpayer money .Besides,the crisis allows<br />
 the Fed to demonstrate its considerable technical<br />
 skills in financial markets, and who knows you may<br />
 even be hailed as a &#8220;savior&#8221;.</p>
<p> So what is a Fed guy to do in this situation?. You<br />
 spend the taxpayer money , and try to put the sorry<br />
 episode behind you as quickly as possible. Besides,<br />
 congress gave you the power , and all of your<br />
 colleagues &#8211; Paulson,Bernanke,Geithner,bank presidents<br />
 ,European Central Bankers, are telling you this is<br />
  the best course of action.</p>
<p> It is like Geithner says -you do what you gotta do.<br />
 Next crisis around, you will do whats right. Did you<br />
 notice that we never seem to get around to doing<br />
 whats right- just whats expedient.</p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can quite see your point.  If we don&#039;t tell them, they won&#039;t realize they are homeless/unemployed/bankrupt/losing their savings/losing their health/losing everything they worked for, and even if they do realize this, they will think they are the only one in the world with this problem.  Good plan!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can quite see your point.  If we don&#8217;t tell them, they won&#8217;t realize they are homeless/unemployed/bankrupt/losing their savings/losing their health/losing everything they worked for, and even if they do realize this, they will think they are the only one in the world with this problem.  Good plan!</p>
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		<title>By: fwm</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fwm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;..  threatened .. efforts..healthcare..&quot;

I agree. The anger from Main Street over bailouts provided the fuel for the healthcare plan (which had its own problems) backlash.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;..  threatened .. efforts..healthcare..&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree. The anger from Main Street over bailouts provided the fuel for the healthcare plan (which had its own problems) backlash.</p>
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		<title>By: lambert strether</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lambert strether]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I prefer &quot;subject&quot; or &quot;peasant&quot; -- the latter, especially, for those who focus on growing their own food, and so forth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer &#8220;subject&#8221; or &#8220;peasant&#8221; &#8212; the latter, especially, for those who focus on growing their own food, and so forth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Philip H</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And, based on his column today, I wonder when they will fire E.J. Dionne.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, based on his column today, I wonder when they will fire E.J. Dionne.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Philip H</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it is.  Now go write your Congressman and tell them exactly this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is.  Now go write your Congressman and tell them exactly this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Philip H</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think what your missing - both here and elsewhere, is something I saw this AM burried in a comment on David Broder&#039;s column in the Washington Post.  Bear with me here, I&#039;m going to try to weave some ideas on a single cup of Joe.

Broder was writing about how &quot;tragic&quot; it is that Atty. General Holder is now looking into prosecuting the CIA operatives who committed torture.  Broder said that, for the investigations to be effective, you have to take them all the way to the top, but what good would it do the nation to see Mr. Cheney in the dock?

A commentor answered that this was just another symptom of the political entitlement felt in certain socio-economic sectors since Nixon resigned.  As the commentor put it, once Nixon got away with it (what with being pardoned and all), lots of folks began to believe they could do what he did, and worse, and get away with it.

How does this apply here?  Simple really - there is STILL no moral hazard for banks to take huge short-term profits at the overall expense of the long-term economic health of the U.S. (and the world).  By bailing the banks and other financial institutions out with few preconditions, Treasury and the Fed sent a clear signal that they were willing to underwrite private risk taking with public dollars, thus obviating the moral hazard.  While Treasury may now want to build more moral hazard in to the regulatory system, the consolidated, financially stronger banks won&#039;t allow it.  Just like Republicans post-Nixon, the banks post-Paulson believe they got away with something, and so feel free to do that something, and worse somethings, again in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what your missing &#8211; both here and elsewhere, is something I saw this AM burried in a comment on David Broder&#8217;s column in the Washington Post.  Bear with me here, I&#8217;m going to try to weave some ideas on a single cup of Joe.</p>
<p>Broder was writing about how &#8220;tragic&#8221; it is that Atty. General Holder is now looking into prosecuting the CIA operatives who committed torture.  Broder said that, for the investigations to be effective, you have to take them all the way to the top, but what good would it do the nation to see Mr. Cheney in the dock?</p>
<p>A commentor answered that this was just another symptom of the political entitlement felt in certain socio-economic sectors since Nixon resigned.  As the commentor put it, once Nixon got away with it (what with being pardoned and all), lots of folks began to believe they could do what he did, and worse, and get away with it.</p>
<p>How does this apply here?  Simple really &#8211; there is STILL no moral hazard for banks to take huge short-term profits at the overall expense of the long-term economic health of the U.S. (and the world).  By bailing the banks and other financial institutions out with few preconditions, Treasury and the Fed sent a clear signal that they were willing to underwrite private risk taking with public dollars, thus obviating the moral hazard.  While Treasury may now want to build more moral hazard in to the regulatory system, the consolidated, financially stronger banks won&#8217;t allow it.  Just like Republicans post-Nixon, the banks post-Paulson believe they got away with something, and so feel free to do that something, and worse somethings, again in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Cohen</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Cohen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excuse me for saying this, but there is still no convincing evidence that the economy has been &quot;saved&quot;.

Tell that to the over 13% of people in foreclosure (on prime mortgages now). Tell that to the 16.8% of people who are unemployed or underemployed. Etc.

It has not been &quot;saved&quot; because Tim Geithner says it has.

When you look at the world through the lens of Big Finance like Geithner does, even if you are critical of it as on this blog, you have a very distorted view of reality.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that the Real Economy = Big Finance.

Or maybe the hoi polloi -- the little people -- really don&#039;t count. 

And even if we have a short-term comeback based mostly on government stimulus, what guarantees exist that any growth we might see is sustainable? The answer? Nothing guarantees it.

Some people have called what we are about to see the &quot;recoveryless&quot; recovery. That&#039;s about right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me for saying this, but there is still no convincing evidence that the economy has been &#8220;saved&#8221;.</p>
<p>Tell that to the over 13% of people in foreclosure (on prime mortgages now). Tell that to the 16.8% of people who are unemployed or underemployed. Etc.</p>
<p>It has not been &#8220;saved&#8221; because Tim Geithner says it has.</p>
<p>When you look at the world through the lens of Big Finance like Geithner does, even if you are critical of it as on this blog, you have a very distorted view of reality.</p>
<p>Please stop perpetuating the idea that the Real Economy = Big Finance.</p>
<p>Or maybe the hoi polloi &#8212; the little people &#8212; really don&#8217;t count. </p>
<p>And even if we have a short-term comeback based mostly on government stimulus, what guarantees exist that any growth we might see is sustainable? The answer? Nothing guarantees it.</p>
<p>Some people have called what we are about to see the &#8220;recoveryless&#8221; recovery. That&#8217;s about right.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TonyForesta</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26391</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TonyForesta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The &quot;existing financial system&quot; is the bane of humanity and must be dismantled.   The dismantling can come about in an orderly way through legal remedies, and leadership having the courage to admit and recognize the extreme abuses, criminality, heartless and wanton greed and profiteering, - or there are other more ...unpleasant options.  Either way, the financial system as it stands today is a grotesque evil that favors thefew at the brutal expense of themany.  Until this dynamic is changed and changed dramatically - the friction and the roiling antagonism will lead inevitably to real horrorshow consequences.  Tomany have been abused, abandoned, and brutalized by tofew, and this evil dynamic must change - or there will be blood, chaos, upheaval, and revolution.  We&#039;re at the cusp of this reality now, and the formally rich American society as it inculcates it&#039;s coming deprivation and devastating losses will react in ways unknown unknown and unless and until there is real change, and a real sharing of wealth between thefew and themany, and real accountablity and the rule of law once more - the inevitable collapse and chaos is certain.   Europe recognized this inevitability in the 1800&#039;s and established societies that were by many measurements &quot;socialist&quot; providing backstops and safetynets for it&#039;s less fortunate citizens, and they prospered.  Not because of any moral leaning, though there is a moral issue involved, - but because the simple math proves that a society that abondons and shits upon it&#039;s poor and middleclass children is certainly DOOMED to fail and join the long and bloody legacy of empires fallen into ruin and rubble caused by the abuse and tyranny of the predatorclass.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;existing financial system&#8221; is the bane of humanity and must be dismantled.   The dismantling can come about in an orderly way through legal remedies, and leadership having the courage to admit and recognize the extreme abuses, criminality, heartless and wanton greed and profiteering, &#8211; or there are other more &#8230;unpleasant options.  Either way, the financial system as it stands today is a grotesque evil that favors thefew at the brutal expense of themany.  Until this dynamic is changed and changed dramatically &#8211; the friction and the roiling antagonism will lead inevitably to real horrorshow consequences.  Tomany have been abused, abandoned, and brutalized by tofew, and this evil dynamic must change &#8211; or there will be blood, chaos, upheaval, and revolution.  We&#8217;re at the cusp of this reality now, and the formally rich American society as it inculcates it&#8217;s coming deprivation and devastating losses will react in ways unknown unknown and unless and until there is real change, and a real sharing of wealth between thefew and themany, and real accountablity and the rule of law once more &#8211; the inevitable collapse and chaos is certain.   Europe recognized this inevitability in the 1800&#8242;s and established societies that were by many measurements &#8220;socialist&#8221; providing backstops and safetynets for it&#8217;s less fortunate citizens, and they prospered.  Not because of any moral leaning, though there is a moral issue involved, &#8211; but because the simple math proves that a society that abondons and shits upon it&#8217;s poor and middleclass children is certainly DOOMED to fail and join the long and bloody legacy of empires fallen into ruin and rubble caused by the abuse and tyranny of the predatorclass.</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kind of like administering too much radiation and chemotherapy to a cancer patient, and then not providing for a lasting program to enhance chances of long term remission.  The radiation and chemo went okay, but the program to enhance chances of a full recovery appear shaky, and the plans to limit the effect of the carcinogen seem to be widely ignored.  Now that we have succeeded in getting on the other side of the major catastrophe, what are we doing to reform the system to promote a more widely distributed and transparent financial industry.  Nothing that I can see.  And, I can&#039;t give Geithner any credence on his congency yet, since his sincerity is substantially in question.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kind of like administering too much radiation and chemotherapy to a cancer patient, and then not providing for a lasting program to enhance chances of long term remission.  The radiation and chemo went okay, but the program to enhance chances of a full recovery appear shaky, and the plans to limit the effect of the carcinogen seem to be widely ignored.  Now that we have succeeded in getting on the other side of the major catastrophe, what are we doing to reform the system to promote a more widely distributed and transparent financial industry.  Nothing that I can see.  And, I can&#8217;t give Geithner any credence on his congency yet, since his sincerity is substantially in question.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/09/02/revisionist-history/#comment-26379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 05:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4894#comment-26379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows James Kwak in this context is using the word nut in an very affectionate way.  If James would allow me to be so bold to say.............]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows James Kwak in this context is using the word nut in an very affectionate way.  If James would allow me to be so bold to say&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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