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	<title>Comments on: Causes: Too Much Debt</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Dave W</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-26598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-26598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NO, most of them did NOT start out as private enterprises.  VA was begun by the government.  FDIC was begun by the government.  Social Security was begun by the government; but unlike what the government requires insurers to do the government has done a lousy job of creating and protecting reserves to cover their obligations.

What is uncharitable about not giving higher interest rates just because savers are looking for them?  If you cannot sustain higher rates you cannot in good conscious offer them.  Or do you honestly believe if I am looking for a 20% CD interest rate that someone should be &quot;charitable&quot; enough to offer it to me?

I did NOT say private enterprise is &quot;always so superior&quot;, YOU did.  At least private enterprise has competition to encourage innovation and cost-effectiveness.  The role of government is to ensure the market stays that way.  If the government becomes an active player they will always play unfairly because they do not care about making a profit due to their alternative subsidy called &quot;tax the public&quot;.  Private enterprise cannot do that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NO, most of them did NOT start out as private enterprises.  VA was begun by the government.  FDIC was begun by the government.  Social Security was begun by the government; but unlike what the government requires insurers to do the government has done a lousy job of creating and protecting reserves to cover their obligations.</p>
<p>What is uncharitable about not giving higher interest rates just because savers are looking for them?  If you cannot sustain higher rates you cannot in good conscious offer them.  Or do you honestly believe if I am looking for a 20% CD interest rate that someone should be &#8220;charitable&#8221; enough to offer it to me?</p>
<p>I did NOT say private enterprise is &#8220;always so superior&#8221;, YOU did.  At least private enterprise has competition to encourage innovation and cost-effectiveness.  The role of government is to ensure the market stays that way.  If the government becomes an active player they will always play unfairly because they do not care about making a profit due to their alternative subsidy called &#8220;tax the public&#8221;.  Private enterprise cannot do that.</p>
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		<title>By: lace wigs</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lace wigs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the causes of the financial breakdown are very simply put:

1) too much easy money from banks, leading to:

2) not enough bank lending, leading to:

3) small businesses closing for lack of operating resources, leading to:

4) a general and permanent shrink in the global economy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the causes of the financial breakdown are very simply put:</p>
<p>1) too much easy money from banks, leading to:</p>
<p>2) not enough bank lending, leading to:</p>
<p>3) small businesses closing for lack of operating resources, leading to:</p>
<p>4) a general and permanent shrink in the global economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t need an expert to answer that one.  Canada seems to be able to continually elect relatively responsible governmental officials.  There are just too many right wing nut jobs here in America who prefers a system of government in which the well to do and well connected are allowed to continually rape and pillage the system.  After nearly 40 uninterrupted years we got what we deserved!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t need an expert to answer that one.  Canada seems to be able to continually elect relatively responsible governmental officials.  There are just too many right wing nut jobs here in America who prefers a system of government in which the well to do and well connected are allowed to continually rape and pillage the system.  After nearly 40 uninterrupted years we got what we deserved!</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[does “self-correcting” mean anything?

if markets were completely left to their own devices wouldn&#039;t pirates and brigands take over the rigging and regulating? (but maybe that&#039;s exactly what has happened in finances)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does “self-correcting” mean anything?</p>
<p>if markets were completely left to their own devices wouldn&#8217;t pirates and brigands take over the rigging and regulating? (but maybe that&#8217;s exactly what has happened in finances)</p>
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		<title>By: benfan101</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25868</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[benfan101]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...and we wanted to borrow because of the Bush administration’s emphasis from 2001 to 2008 on cutting taxes while still spending.&quot;

Of course the government has to plan and approve fiscal spending. Bernanke&#039;s Asian Spending Glut Hypothesis is not arguing that Chinese saving forced our Legislative/Executive branch to spend more than the tax revenues.  What Bernanke was essentially saying was that there was obviously as much or more demand for our debt than supply because interest rates decreased.  The word &quot;forced&quot; refers to the argument that if China kept saving the money they could have been paying their manufacturing employees than America&#039;s unemployment would have increased because Chinese could be more price competitive than the US. 

Thus, in reality, China &quot;forced&quot; America to decide between two choices that COULD have unhappy endings: higher unemployment or more debt. Chinn and Frieden seem to suggest that if America didn&#039;t have this huge fiscal debt, other economic indicators would look similar to what they have looked like since 1997. But of course every dollar that we don&#039;t borrow has consequences just like every dollar we do borrow has consequences.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;and we wanted to borrow because of the Bush administration’s emphasis from 2001 to 2008 on cutting taxes while still spending.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course the government has to plan and approve fiscal spending. Bernanke&#8217;s Asian Spending Glut Hypothesis is not arguing that Chinese saving forced our Legislative/Executive branch to spend more than the tax revenues.  What Bernanke was essentially saying was that there was obviously as much or more demand for our debt than supply because interest rates decreased.  The word &#8220;forced&#8221; refers to the argument that if China kept saving the money they could have been paying their manufacturing employees than America&#8217;s unemployment would have increased because Chinese could be more price competitive than the US. </p>
<p>Thus, in reality, China &#8220;forced&#8221; America to decide between two choices that COULD have unhappy endings: higher unemployment or more debt. Chinn and Frieden seem to suggest that if America didn&#8217;t have this huge fiscal debt, other economic indicators would look similar to what they have looked like since 1997. But of course every dollar that we don&#8217;t borrow has consequences just like every dollar we do borrow has consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charles: &quot;The idea that markets are self-correcting, whether in the long term – in which we are all dead – or the short term (how long is this, btw?) presumes that markets aren’t rigged or regulated. That is, if markets are not rigged and markets are not regulated, then, markets are self-correcting.&quot;

Really? In the short term, perhaps we can hold supply and demand constant, but surely not in the long term. In the long term, does &quot;self-correcting&quot; mean anything?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles: &#8220;The idea that markets are self-correcting, whether in the long term – in which we are all dead – or the short term (how long is this, btw?) presumes that markets aren’t rigged or regulated. That is, if markets are not rigged and markets are not regulated, then, markets are self-correcting.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? In the short term, perhaps we can hold supply and demand constant, but surely not in the long term. In the long term, does &#8220;self-correcting&#8221; mean anything?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea that markets are self-correcting, whether in the long term - in which we are all dead - or the short term (how long is this, btw?) presumes that markets aren&#039;t rigged or regulated.  That is, if markets are not rigged and markets are not regulated, then, markets are self-correcting.  Or, to state the equivalent, if markets are not self-correcting, then, they&#039;re rigged or if markets are not self-correcting, then they&#039;re regulated.  In fact, all markets are rigged or regulated.   Therefore,...

Despite the availability of capital at low cost, if the participants in the markets had made sound investment and lending decisions, the regulators had monitored behavior effectively and enforced the rules, cheap capital wouldn&#039;t have resulted in this outcome.

I agree with Chinn and Frieden on all counts reported here.  I also agree with the reported emphasis on regulatory failure, fed policy and Bush administration tax and spend policy.  Democrates are often labeled &quot;tax and spend&quot; Democrats.  To be fair, why not label Republicans &quot;borrow and spend&quot; Republicans?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that markets are self-correcting, whether in the long term &#8211; in which we are all dead &#8211; or the short term (how long is this, btw?) presumes that markets aren&#8217;t rigged or regulated.  That is, if markets are not rigged and markets are not regulated, then, markets are self-correcting.  Or, to state the equivalent, if markets are not self-correcting, then, they&#8217;re rigged or if markets are not self-correcting, then they&#8217;re regulated.  In fact, all markets are rigged or regulated.   Therefore,&#8230;</p>
<p>Despite the availability of capital at low cost, if the participants in the markets had made sound investment and lending decisions, the regulators had monitored behavior effectively and enforced the rules, cheap capital wouldn&#8217;t have resulted in this outcome.</p>
<p>I agree with Chinn and Frieden on all counts reported here.  I also agree with the reported emphasis on regulatory failure, fed policy and Bush administration tax and spend policy.  Democrates are often labeled &#8220;tax and spend&#8221; Democrats.  To be fair, why not label Republicans &#8220;borrow and spend&#8221; Republicans?</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[StatsGuy: &quot;But the US relied heavily on the theory that markets were self-correcting (and they are, in the long run and in the absence of distortions).&quot;

Really? Some markets, such as those in time-limited derivatives, are. Others, such as those in theater tickets, do not seem to be. In general, are markets not chaotic? Does the existence of supply and demand curves not indicate that there is nothing to converge (correct) to?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>StatsGuy: &#8220;But the US relied heavily on the theory that markets were self-correcting (and they are, in the long run and in the absence of distortions).&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? Some markets, such as those in time-limited derivatives, are. Others, such as those in theater tickets, do not seem to be. In general, are markets not chaotic? Does the existence of supply and demand curves not indicate that there is nothing to converge (correct) to?</p>
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		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25677</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree here...

&quot;It is necessary to dispense with the view that all this excess saving from the rest of the world was “forced” upon us.&quot;

One can blame the &quot;character&quot; of the US consumer, and surely this is part of the story.  But the US relied heavily on the theory that markets were self-correcting (and they are, in the long run and in the absence of distortions).  While relying on the self-correcting nature of the markets to fix problems that develop over the course of 30 years is always dangerous, it&#039;s particularly foolish when the markets (in this case, the currency market) is being deliberately distorted by a regime with Mercantilist policy goals.

Jeffrey Frieden has contributed extensively to the literature on &quot;varieties of capitalism&quot; and the adaptation of national economies to policy regimes.  He should be highly sensitive to the issues surrounding Chinese currency policy.  And frankly, Chinese currency policy was only this problematic because of the complete faith our own economists put in a neo-liberal trade framework (aka, if someone is giving you a massive trade subsidy, including subsidized credit, don&#039;t respond with tariffs, but say thank you!).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree here&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;It is necessary to dispense with the view that all this excess saving from the rest of the world was “forced” upon us.&#8221;</p>
<p>One can blame the &#8220;character&#8221; of the US consumer, and surely this is part of the story.  But the US relied heavily on the theory that markets were self-correcting (and they are, in the long run and in the absence of distortions).  While relying on the self-correcting nature of the markets to fix problems that develop over the course of 30 years is always dangerous, it&#8217;s particularly foolish when the markets (in this case, the currency market) is being deliberately distorted by a regime with Mercantilist policy goals.</p>
<p>Jeffrey Frieden has contributed extensively to the literature on &#8220;varieties of capitalism&#8221; and the adaptation of national economies to policy regimes.  He should be highly sensitive to the issues surrounding Chinese currency policy.  And frankly, Chinese currency policy was only this problematic because of the complete faith our own economists put in a neo-liberal trade framework (aka, if someone is giving you a massive trade subsidy, including subsidized credit, don&#8217;t respond with tariffs, but say thank you!).</p>
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		<title>By: keboom</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25676</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keboom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t western europe take the same hit we did? At least Britain, weren&#039;t they run thru the same pressure cooker? and i guess my real question is were they subject to the same influx of foreign capital? or maybe their capital system is subject to different pressures? I am sorry if these questions are wrong or ignorant, i am not a policy wonk and have been reading above my head for some time on all this and am having a hard time connecting the same dots.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t western europe take the same hit we did? At least Britain, weren&#8217;t they run thru the same pressure cooker? and i guess my real question is were they subject to the same influx of foreign capital? or maybe their capital system is subject to different pressures? I am sorry if these questions are wrong or ignorant, i am not a policy wonk and have been reading above my head for some time on all this and am having a hard time connecting the same dots.</p>
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		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harvard&#039;s endowment investment management team was anything but &quot;unsophisticated&quot;.  I think most fund managers would drool to have their returns (averaged over the last 30 years).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harvard&#8217;s endowment investment management team was anything but &#8220;unsophisticated&#8221;.  I think most fund managers would drool to have their returns (averaged over the last 30 years).</p>
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		<title>By: Tippy Golden</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tippy Golden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not just Tim Hortons and Irving Oil. Consider this:

(1) Canadian banks have started trade missions to China. Which banking system would those famous Chinese savers prefer? Canadian versus American / Swiss / German / British?

(2) Canadian banks are bringing their American divisions (which are in the red) in line with Canadian regulation.

(3) Canadian banks have the cash reserves to buy American banks. (A case of foreign take over perhaps?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just Tim Hortons and Irving Oil. Consider this:</p>
<p>(1) Canadian banks have started trade missions to China. Which banking system would those famous Chinese savers prefer? Canadian versus American / Swiss / German / British?</p>
<p>(2) Canadian banks are bringing their American divisions (which are in the red) in line with Canadian regulation.</p>
<p>(3) Canadian banks have the cash reserves to buy American banks. (A case of foreign take over perhaps?)</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting!  I have noticed in my neck of the woods (I live within 200 miles of the Canadian border) two new Canadian companies making strong advances in the local market: Tim Horton&#039;s and Irving fuel.  South Park was right all along!  Blame Canada! LOL.

Seriously, I hope they&#039;re getting it closer to right, and I&#039;m happy to give them my business.  Canada in its current state seems far more down to earth than our economic insanity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!  I have noticed in my neck of the woods (I live within 200 miles of the Canadian border) two new Canadian companies making strong advances in the local market: Tim Horton&#8217;s and Irving fuel.  South Park was right all along!  Blame Canada! LOL.</p>
<p>Seriously, I hope they&#8217;re getting it closer to right, and I&#8217;m happy to give them my business.  Canada in its current state seems far more down to earth than our economic insanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Fed Up</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fed Up]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Causes:

1) cheap labor and/or productivity
2) cheap debt (low interest rates)
3) wealth/income inequality
4) a price inflationary attitude from the 1970&#039;s when the fed was really fighting price deflation because of their cheap labor policies (outsourcing, legal immigration, illegal immigration)
5) bad assumptions about future wage income and/or future asset price gains 


Any more?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Causes:</p>
<p>1) cheap labor and/or productivity<br />
2) cheap debt (low interest rates)<br />
3) wealth/income inequality<br />
4) a price inflationary attitude from the 1970&#8242;s when the fed was really fighting price deflation because of their cheap labor policies (outsourcing, legal immigration, illegal immigration)<br />
5) bad assumptions about future wage income and/or future asset price gains </p>
<p>Any more?</p>
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		<title>By: Fed Up</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/28/causes-too-much-debt/#comment-25671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fed Up]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4833#comment-25671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Manshu, here is a link.

The Voyage of a Dollar

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/fallows-chinese-dollars/3]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manshu, here is a link.</p>
<p>The Voyage of a Dollar</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/fallows-chinese-dollars/3" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/fallows-chinese-dollars/3</a></p>
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