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	<title>Comments on: The Demand for Housing</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-25073</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-25073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; And I don’t know how many private high schools charge just $5000 per pupil. &lt;/i&gt;

The ones that are equivalent to public schools?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> And I don’t know how many private high schools charge just $5000 per pupil. </i></p>
<p>The ones that are equivalent to public schools?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If sending 3 kids to a private high school at your old houses costs $5,000/year, and if the new house’s public high school is free and equally good then taking a $60,000 bath on the house is break-even. Completely rational.&quot;  

I don&#039;t think there are too many actual families that fit this paradigm.  If someone is using private school for 3 kids, it&#039;s unlikely they&#039;d conclude the public one is equally good. This also assumes property taxes are equal in both locations which is unlikely if the new school is sufficiently better than the old one to induce the change.  And I don&#039;t know how many private high schools charge just $5000 per pupil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If sending 3 kids to a private high school at your old houses costs $5,000/year, and if the new house’s public high school is free and equally good then taking a $60,000 bath on the house is break-even. Completely rational.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there are too many actual families that fit this paradigm.  If someone is using private school for 3 kids, it&#8217;s unlikely they&#8217;d conclude the public one is equally good. This also assumes property taxes are equal in both locations which is unlikely if the new school is sufficiently better than the old one to induce the change.  And I don&#8217;t know how many private high schools charge just $5000 per pupil.</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[isn&#039;t it remarkable that in society in general the battle cry is for diversity while for corporations it still seems to be &quot;focus on your core business&quot; 
(exception the BASF-boss very recently said he would rather cut his ties to the providers of outsourced stuff than fire his own people - a phrase which would last year have earned him hoots of derisive laughter)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t it remarkable that in society in general the battle cry is for diversity while for corporations it still seems to be &#8220;focus on your core business&#8221;<br />
(exception the BASF-boss very recently said he would rather cut his ties to the providers of outsourced stuff than fire his own people &#8211; a phrase which would last year have earned him hoots of derisive laughter)</p>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Silke
I have never written something under a pseudonym (not even in Venezuela) because I am frightened to death having to start thinking which me wrote what? 
And frankly, the problem of FT not publishing me might be more theirs than mine. There are my letters for anyone to see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silke<br />
I have never written something under a pseudonym (not even in Venezuela) because I am frightened to death having to start thinking which me wrote what?<br />
And frankly, the problem of FT not publishing me might be more theirs than mine. There are my letters for anyone to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Per,
provide them with letters under different pseudonyms so they can keep up their diversity ...
- German media seem always terribly afraid of being one-sided and being caught at adhering to some basic rules of decency 
the British seem to be wild at constant self-accusal for their imperial sins
- the result quite often is excessive even scatter-brained open-mindedness as still the fashion of the day - hopefully the burst of that bubble doesn&#039;t come in the shape of a revival of excessively strict rules]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per,<br />
provide them with letters under different pseudonyms so they can keep up their diversity &#8230;<br />
- German media seem always terribly afraid of being one-sided and being caught at adhering to some basic rules of decency<br />
the British seem to be wild at constant self-accusal for their imperial sins<br />
- the result quite often is excessive even scatter-brained open-mindedness as still the fashion of the day &#8211; hopefully the burst of that bubble doesn&#8217;t come in the shape of a revival of excessively strict rules</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24782</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh there is no other particular reason for having picked FT except that I read it and find it to be a good paper… and that it gives me somewhat of another perspective.

And they did publish 15 letters of my letters over quite a brief time (all of which are still valid today) so they must have felt I had something to say… why they then cut me off I do not know they said I wrote too much which seems silly for a newspaper.

That said I am approaching or I might have passed 1000 letters in my TeaWithFT blog and I hope that one day I can look back at these letters and make some sense or some less sense about these period of time when frankly the world has been behaving quite nutty… to use a British understatement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh there is no other particular reason for having picked FT except that I read it and find it to be a good paper… and that it gives me somewhat of another perspective.</p>
<p>And they did publish 15 letters of my letters over quite a brief time (all of which are still valid today) so they must have felt I had something to say… why they then cut me off I do not know they said I wrote too much which seems silly for a newspaper.</p>
<p>That said I am approaching or I might have passed 1000 letters in my TeaWithFT blog and I hope that one day I can look back at these letters and make some sense or some less sense about these period of time when frankly the world has been behaving quite nutty… to use a British understatement.</p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, now you&#039;ve convinced me.  Lou Dobbs.  Can&#039;t be wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, now you&#8217;ve convinced me.  Lou Dobbs.  Can&#8217;t be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Per,
why is it so important that the Financial Times didn&#039;t want your letters ?
- I mean what is so special about the Financial Times that you didn&#039;t just go to another one ?
 to me the FT is just another one]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per,<br />
why is it so important that the Financial Times didn&#8217;t want your letters ?<br />
- I mean what is so special about the Financial Times that you didn&#8217;t just go to another one ?<br />
 to me the FT is just another one</p>
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		<title>By: LarryKudlowIsGiddy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LarryKudlowIsGiddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[......... if you don&#039;t believe me ask Lou Dobbs. 

&quot;When in doubt&quot;.... excuse me, the doubt is yours not mine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; if you don&#8217;t believe me ask Lou Dobbs. </p>
<p>&#8220;When in doubt&#8221;&#8230;. excuse me, the doubt is yours not mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course it spread like fire! In January 2003, before I was blacklisted, who knows why, the Financial Times published a letter I sent to them which ended with “Everyone knows that, sooner or later, the ratings issued by the credit agencies are just a new breed of systemic error to be propagated at modern speeds. Friends, please consider that the world is tough enough as it is.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it spread like fire! In January 2003, before I was blacklisted, who knows why, the Financial Times published a letter I sent to them which ended with “Everyone knows that, sooner or later, the ratings issued by the credit agencies are just a new breed of systemic error to be propagated at modern speeds. Friends, please consider that the world is tough enough as it is.”</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are many sides to what really caused the collapse. But clearly at the Wall Street investment houses, once the rating agencies started slapping AAA on toxic crap subprime deriviatives, while at the same time Fan and Fred were talking guarantees on similar crap, an incendiary situation developed which quickly spread like a forest fire out of control. 

The allure of big return with no perceived risk is key to understanding much of Wall Street&#039;s behavior, which is not to say that behavior should be condoned or forgiven. Wiser  heads should have known better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many sides to what really caused the collapse. But clearly at the Wall Street investment houses, once the rating agencies started slapping AAA on toxic crap subprime deriviatives, while at the same time Fan and Fred were talking guarantees on similar crap, an incendiary situation developed which quickly spread like a forest fire out of control. </p>
<p>The allure of big return with no perceived risk is key to understanding much of Wall Street&#8217;s behavior, which is not to say that behavior should be condoned or forgiven. Wiser  heads should have known better.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yakkis,

First Principle:  The function of government in a capitalist society is to guarantee the security of the capitalists.  Therefore, you have to be a capitalist.  That means you have to have capital, which you can 1)inherit 2)earn and save 3)borrow.  If you didn&#039;t inherit your capital, and you&#039;re not patient and self-controlled enough to earn and save it, you are in the vast majority of Americans.  I&#039;m not, and never having any debt of any kind has meant it took me longer during boom times to accumulate, but I kept going upward during busts, unlike the borrowers.  I guess I&#039;m a freak.  

That said, here&#039;s All The Other Principles:

1) Never borrow for consumption - that&#039;s for suckers and idiots.  It&#039;s like the lottery: a tax on stupidity.
2) When you borrow to invest, make sure there&#039;s a government guarantee somewhere to bail you out in case your investment doesn&#039;t work out.  If you can get such a guarantee (e.g., SBA loan) then leverage to the max, and if you can&#039;t don&#039;t leverage at all.  
3) Diversify.  Don&#039;t run with the herd after the latest hot investment, and don&#039;t try to &quot;beat the market&quot; (or anyone else).  Think for yourself, do your own research, or don&#039;t invest. 
4) Once you have a safe, diversity-based strategy, don&#039;t suddenly get wild because you feel you&#039;re &quot;missing out&quot; on some bubble or market cycles have reduced your real return (as long as it is overall positive).  Kindleberger pointed out that people get a certain lifestyle goal into their head and then feel pressured to take unsafe risks when safe investments just won&#039;t produce the return they feel they &quot;must have&quot; to meet their goal. The goal is accumulation over time, not instant wealth. 
5) Clean out your brain from the fantasy of capital gains and invest in steady income producing assets.  Dividends are not a steady form of income, and the stock market is somewhere between a casino and a racetrack.  Re-invest all returns until you have hit &quot;critical mass&quot; and can live happily ever after on the income.  
6) To get in on the theft racket, only invest in sectors and companies with a strong government connection (the most obvious include military, health care, finance, etc.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yakkis,</p>
<p>First Principle:  The function of government in a capitalist society is to guarantee the security of the capitalists.  Therefore, you have to be a capitalist.  That means you have to have capital, which you can 1)inherit 2)earn and save 3)borrow.  If you didn&#8217;t inherit your capital, and you&#8217;re not patient and self-controlled enough to earn and save it, you are in the vast majority of Americans.  I&#8217;m not, and never having any debt of any kind has meant it took me longer during boom times to accumulate, but I kept going upward during busts, unlike the borrowers.  I guess I&#8217;m a freak.  </p>
<p>That said, here&#8217;s All The Other Principles:</p>
<p>1) Never borrow for consumption &#8211; that&#8217;s for suckers and idiots.  It&#8217;s like the lottery: a tax on stupidity.<br />
2) When you borrow to invest, make sure there&#8217;s a government guarantee somewhere to bail you out in case your investment doesn&#8217;t work out.  If you can get such a guarantee (e.g., SBA loan) then leverage to the max, and if you can&#8217;t don&#8217;t leverage at all.<br />
3) Diversify.  Don&#8217;t run with the herd after the latest hot investment, and don&#8217;t try to &#8220;beat the market&#8221; (or anyone else).  Think for yourself, do your own research, or don&#8217;t invest.<br />
4) Once you have a safe, diversity-based strategy, don&#8217;t suddenly get wild because you feel you&#8217;re &#8220;missing out&#8221; on some bubble or market cycles have reduced your real return (as long as it is overall positive).  Kindleberger pointed out that people get a certain lifestyle goal into their head and then feel pressured to take unsafe risks when safe investments just won&#8217;t produce the return they feel they &#8220;must have&#8221; to meet their goal. The goal is accumulation over time, not instant wealth.<br />
5) Clean out your brain from the fantasy of capital gains and invest in steady income producing assets.  Dividends are not a steady form of income, and the stock market is somewhere between a casino and a racetrack.  Re-invest all returns until you have hit &#8220;critical mass&#8221; and can live happily ever after on the income.<br />
6) To get in on the theft racket, only invest in sectors and companies with a strong government connection (the most obvious include military, health care, finance, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Per Kurowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Kurowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having taken the time to study (and approve the exams) for a license as a real estate salesman and as a mortgage officer in the US (Maryland) (among other so that I with knowledge of banking and regulation could be more certain of of what I was arguing) I can certainly attest to that this school consideration was one of the prime drivers of location-location-location value though it bears no mayor relevance as to why the crisis developed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having taken the time to study (and approve the exams) for a license as a real estate salesman and as a mortgage officer in the US (Maryland) (among other so that I with knowledge of banking and regulation could be more certain of of what I was arguing) I can certainly attest to that this school consideration was one of the prime drivers of location-location-location value though it bears no mayor relevance as to why the crisis developed.</p>
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		<title>By: galenk</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[galenk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can testify to the education part of housing demand.  In 2006, I researched the local school districts which were good enough that I wouldn&#039;t need to consider private schools.  I did some rough calculations to consider what public schools that met my expectations were worth.  I came up with at least $500K in home value.  It just did a back of the envelope type calculation -- 13 years X 2 kids X 20k per year.  Without even considering that my mortgage interest would be discounted by the government, it was a no-brainer where to buy.

When it came to actually buying a house, I found myself outbid on several houses with people following a specific plan.  People whose kids were already in school would max out an interest-only or even negative amortization loan with the plan of selling as soon as the kids graduated.  This pushed prices up at least $200k on houses zoned for the best high school.  We toured several houses in the spring where we saw high school senior year paraphernalia.  I also saw things that indicated the sellers&#039; occupation -- many didn&#039;t have professions that would typically allow one to actually afford the houses we were looking at.  It didn&#039;t take a PhD to notice people were increasing their leverage to secure better education for their kids.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can testify to the education part of housing demand.  In 2006, I researched the local school districts which were good enough that I wouldn&#8217;t need to consider private schools.  I did some rough calculations to consider what public schools that met my expectations were worth.  I came up with at least $500K in home value.  It just did a back of the envelope type calculation &#8212; 13 years X 2 kids X 20k per year.  Without even considering that my mortgage interest would be discounted by the government, it was a no-brainer where to buy.</p>
<p>When it came to actually buying a house, I found myself outbid on several houses with people following a specific plan.  People whose kids were already in school would max out an interest-only or even negative amortization loan with the plan of selling as soon as the kids graduated.  This pushed prices up at least $200k on houses zoned for the best high school.  We toured several houses in the spring where we saw high school senior year paraphernalia.  I also saw things that indicated the sellers&#8217; occupation &#8212; many didn&#8217;t have professions that would typically allow one to actually afford the houses we were looking at.  It didn&#8217;t take a PhD to notice people were increasing their leverage to secure better education for their kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Beezer</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/17/the-demand-for-housing/#comment-24728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beezer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4693#comment-24728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Declining interest rates increase house prices, which increases demand for said houses.

Greenspan became concerned and started raising interest rates leading up to the bubble being burst.

Doesn&#039;t matter who, or what cohort, of even why.  Declining interest rates increase house prices.  

Rising property prices also increase local government income, which results in too ambitious union contracts and other spending.  California&#039;s a good  subprime example.  Liar loan union contracts.

Of course increasing health insurance bills (mentioned in the post) and rising oil prices amounting to a $500 billion annual tax increase didn&#039;t help either.  

The only reason we are not now in another Depression is that there were massive amounts of stimulus pumped out, and there was a 70% decline in the price of oil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Declining interest rates increase house prices, which increases demand for said houses.</p>
<p>Greenspan became concerned and started raising interest rates leading up to the bubble being burst.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t matter who, or what cohort, of even why.  Declining interest rates increase house prices.  </p>
<p>Rising property prices also increase local government income, which results in too ambitious union contracts and other spending.  California&#8217;s a good  subprime example.  Liar loan union contracts.</p>
<p>Of course increasing health insurance bills (mentioned in the post) and rising oil prices amounting to a $500 billion annual tax increase didn&#8217;t help either.  </p>
<p>The only reason we are not now in another Depression is that there were massive amounts of stimulus pumped out, and there was a 70% decline in the price of oil.</p>
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