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	<title>Comments on: The Problem with Disclosure</title>
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	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-24546</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-24546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the difference in both your examples is that &quot;your&quot; guys were employed i.e. their wages at least approximately known or even communicated
&quot;my&quot; Greeks were self-employed fishermen living in tight interdepence with their women folk (who could see to the sale of the fish when the man had to roam the coast for a catch and who probably were tougher at negotiating the price)

I somehow continue to believe that a self-employed man (especially one fishing/hunting for a living) can afford to be a prouder human being than one depending on wages, more in command of designing his own life-style (the similarity to the difference between a lawyer with a private practice and a high ranking manager in a corporation is striking though) 
- that&#039;s why it amazed me that it was OK for them to grant so much power and independence to their women (however, the island of Patmos is a bit untypical insofar as the family lives in a house which is the undisputed property of Mama who will only pass it on to a daughter not to a son and who has acquired it either as dowry or found some way of working herself to the ground to acquire one by for example taking care of an old woman without family for 12 years for the inheritance. No boy is allowed to marry before his sister has a house of her own. Do not know how they do it now, 30 years later, when the seamen jobs by which they financed it presumably are all taken by the guys from Asia.) Maybe tourism helped but what is going to happen if that dwindles - will they go back to being dirt-poor again - all in one life-time?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the difference in both your examples is that &#8220;your&#8221; guys were employed i.e. their wages at least approximately known or even communicated<br />
&#8220;my&#8221; Greeks were self-employed fishermen living in tight interdepence with their women folk (who could see to the sale of the fish when the man had to roam the coast for a catch and who probably were tougher at negotiating the price)</p>
<p>I somehow continue to believe that a self-employed man (especially one fishing/hunting for a living) can afford to be a prouder human being than one depending on wages, more in command of designing his own life-style (the similarity to the difference between a lawyer with a private practice and a high ranking manager in a corporation is striking though)<br />
- that&#8217;s why it amazed me that it was OK for them to grant so much power and independence to their women (however, the island of Patmos is a bit untypical insofar as the family lives in a house which is the undisputed property of Mama who will only pass it on to a daughter not to a son and who has acquired it either as dowry or found some way of working herself to the ground to acquire one by for example taking care of an old woman without family for 12 years for the inheritance. No boy is allowed to marry before his sister has a house of her own. Do not know how they do it now, 30 years later, when the seamen jobs by which they financed it presumably are all taken by the guys from Asia.) Maybe tourism helped but what is going to happen if that dwindles &#8211; will they go back to being dirt-poor again &#8211; all in one life-time?</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-24543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-24543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think something similar is/was practiced in parts of Latin America, except that a male worker&#039;s pay was physically handed over to the wife without it ever touching her husband&#039;s hands in the meantime.

The understanding was that if the husband ever got his hands on his pay packet even for a minute, he would spend it all on alcohol and prostitutes before he ever made it home.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think something similar is/was practiced in parts of Latin America, except that a male worker&#8217;s pay was physically handed over to the wife without it ever touching her husband&#8217;s hands in the meantime.</p>
<p>The understanding was that if the husband ever got his hands on his pay packet even for a minute, he would spend it all on alcohol and prostitutes before he ever made it home.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Murphy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-24020</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Murphy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-24020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Something similar was quite common amongst working class working families in England decades ago when the man would go out and do the work and come home and had his  unopened pay packet to his wife.  She would ensure all that was needed for the family was kept by her (rent, food, bills etc) and he would be given back a some to go to the pub, the dogs etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something similar was quite common amongst working class working families in England decades ago when the man would go out and do the work and come home and had his  unopened pay packet to his wife.  She would ensure all that was needed for the family was kept by her (rent, food, bills etc) and he would be given back a some to go to the pub, the dogs etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that this is somewhere in some lenders underwriting manuals:  Each loan or credit facility must be approved based upon the borrowers ability to repay, determined by history (credit score) and income/assets (availability of repayment assets) and will be limited based upon a formula.

It seems to me that the most certain way to control consumer borrowing is to establish statutory guidelines for every form of loan or credit facility, such that no borrower will have to make any decision except whether or not to apply.  If the guidelines were mathematically formulated, and there were no loans permitted without full documentation, then the number of defaults would be drastically reduced.

I also believe that we need to reestablish the statutory usury limits, and apply those to the APR, not the simple interest rate.

These requirements would make it very difficult for banks to develop financial products that were not balanced and reasonable to have in the market place.  They would be the most proactive form of consumer protection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that this is somewhere in some lenders underwriting manuals:  Each loan or credit facility must be approved based upon the borrowers ability to repay, determined by history (credit score) and income/assets (availability of repayment assets) and will be limited based upon a formula.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the most certain way to control consumer borrowing is to establish statutory guidelines for every form of loan or credit facility, such that no borrower will have to make any decision except whether or not to apply.  If the guidelines were mathematically formulated, and there were no loans permitted without full documentation, then the number of defaults would be drastically reduced.</p>
<p>I also believe that we need to reestablish the statutory usury limits, and apply those to the APR, not the simple interest rate.</p>
<p>These requirements would make it very difficult for banks to develop financial products that were not balanced and reasonable to have in the market place.  They would be the most proactive form of consumer protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;  perhaps you could force disclosure of a very simple statistic - what was the median amount of non-principal charges paid, over the past year, by customers who owned +/- $100 around the balance you&#039;re currently carrying, with the rules that would apply to you if you switched &lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a statistic that can be understood by everyone.  Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>  perhaps you could force disclosure of a very simple statistic &#8211; what was the median amount of non-principal charges paid, over the past year, by customers who owned +/- $100 around the balance you&#8217;re currently carrying, with the rules that would apply to you if you switched </i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a statistic that can be understood by everyone.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric J</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems to me that opponents of the CFPA would like this argument to be cast in the form suggest by this posting. That is, there are two opposing view points.

I posit that a functioning regulatory scheme in this space would be quite simple in principle.  It would exist to foster competition at a level that matters to customers.

For example in the credit card arena, perhaps you could force disclosure of a very simple statistic - what was the median amount of non-principal charges paid, over the past year, by customers who owned +/- $100 around the balance you&#039;re currently carrying, with the rules that would apply to you if you switched.  Now make sure those rules apply for at least a year.  No changing them without notice.

We do this sort of thing for gas mileage.  Why couldn&#039;t we do it for credit cards?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that opponents of the CFPA would like this argument to be cast in the form suggest by this posting. That is, there are two opposing view points.</p>
<p>I posit that a functioning regulatory scheme in this space would be quite simple in principle.  It would exist to foster competition at a level that matters to customers.</p>
<p>For example in the credit card arena, perhaps you could force disclosure of a very simple statistic &#8211; what was the median amount of non-principal charges paid, over the past year, by customers who owned +/- $100 around the balance you&#8217;re currently carrying, with the rules that would apply to you if you switched.  Now make sure those rules apply for at least a year.  No changing them without notice.</p>
<p>We do this sort of thing for gas mileage.  Why couldn&#8217;t we do it for credit cards?</p>
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		<title>By: J.</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a link for ya:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a link for ya:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; CFPA opponents believe that policies should faithfully reflect certain principles; in this case, people should be free to make their own financial choices, even if in aggregate most people will make bad choices, and they should bear the consequences of those choices. &lt;/i&gt;

And then there are the radical opponents who feel that the principle reflected should be to cause the greatest benefit to the credit card companies, disregarding any rights of the consumer.  They draw strength from the observation that things seem to work this way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> CFPA opponents believe that policies should faithfully reflect certain principles; in this case, people should be free to make their own financial choices, even if in aggregate most people will make bad choices, and they should bear the consequences of those choices. </i></p>
<p>And then there are the radical opponents who feel that the principle reflected should be to cause the greatest benefit to the credit card companies, disregarding any rights of the consumer.  They draw strength from the observation that things seem to work this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whether or not you read it, you can&#039;t negotiate it.  It&#039;s offered on a take it or leave it basis. 

Furthermore, one side gets to revise the language at any time and send out new terms in fine print whenever it wants.  Also, non-negotiable.

Any dispute is resolved by partial and corrupted arbitrators, as per the boilerplate.

And everyone still pretends there has been a meeting of the minds.

What a great system!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether or not you read it, you can&#8217;t negotiate it.  It&#8217;s offered on a take it or leave it basis. </p>
<p>Furthermore, one side gets to revise the language at any time and send out new terms in fine print whenever it wants.  Also, non-negotiable.</p>
<p>Any dispute is resolved by partial and corrupted arbitrators, as per the boilerplate.</p>
<p>And everyone still pretends there has been a meeting of the minds.</p>
<p>What a great system!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jay Z</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree, the not just bad but fraudulent debt of the real estate bubble created winners of banks, developers, and the least qualified buyers - if you&#039;re going to go bankrupt or be foreclosed anyway, better a lot of debt than a little - and left the honest buyers as the bagholders.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the not just bad but fraudulent debt of the real estate bubble created winners of banks, developers, and the least qualified buyers &#8211; if you&#8217;re going to go bankrupt or be foreclosed anyway, better a lot of debt than a little &#8211; and left the honest buyers as the bagholders.</p>
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		<title>By: Silke</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Silke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[there’s a tendency for societies to experience a deep and potentially final political split when those who are more rational and/or educated become unwilling to accede to the emotional demands of the less-educated.

that&#039;s what they keep telling us about the Nazis, it was all the fault of the uneducated emotionalised masses
I think myths like that are so persistent because they allow the educated to keep adoring Heidegger and his ilk for their deepness or whatever and to never ever mention their support for the MasterRace or whatever else they found to admire in those riding boot wearing black clad clean coiffed young man]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there’s a tendency for societies to experience a deep and potentially final political split when those who are more rational and/or educated become unwilling to accede to the emotional demands of the less-educated.</p>
<p>that&#8217;s what they keep telling us about the Nazis, it was all the fault of the uneducated emotionalised masses<br />
I think myths like that are so persistent because they allow the educated to keep adoring Heidegger and his ilk for their deepness or whatever and to never ever mention their support for the MasterRace or whatever else they found to admire in those riding boot wearing black clad clean coiffed young man</p>
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		<title>By: The Raven</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Raven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The author might have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/black.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;William K. Black&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author might have been <a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/black.htm" rel="nofollow">William K. Black</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Yakkis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yakkis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was wondering if I might have a chance at working at a bank if I listed &quot;sociopath&quot; as one of my skills on my resume.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering if I might have a chance at working at a bank if I listed &#8220;sociopath&#8221; as one of my skills on my resume.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marion</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anyone really believe real people read those things? 20 years ago the documentation at a real estate closing was about an inch high. Today, it is at least 9-12 inches high, most of which is statutorily required disclosure. I can promise you that the buyers haven&#039;t plowed through, much less understood, all that jargon.  All this &#039;disclosure&#039; stuff is just a fiction to avoid protecting the public. The problem is that poor choices in some areas don&#039;t just harm the chooser but can ruin all of us. We did not participate in the real estate bubble have no debt are not big consumers and invest conservatively. The poor choices others make mean we are being ruined, people will not be able to educate their children or retire through no fault of their own. The consequence of irresponsible supposedly &#039;free&#039; choices in unregulated markets are too catastrophic to be allowed. QED.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone really believe real people read those things? 20 years ago the documentation at a real estate closing was about an inch high. Today, it is at least 9-12 inches high, most of which is statutorily required disclosure. I can promise you that the buyers haven&#8217;t plowed through, much less understood, all that jargon.  All this &#8216;disclosure&#8217; stuff is just a fiction to avoid protecting the public. The problem is that poor choices in some areas don&#8217;t just harm the chooser but can ruin all of us. We did not participate in the real estate bubble have no debt are not big consumers and invest conservatively. The poor choices others make mean we are being ruined, people will not be able to educate their children or retire through no fault of their own. The consequence of irresponsible supposedly &#8216;free&#8217; choices in unregulated markets are too catastrophic to be allowed. QED.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Aunt Deb</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/12/the-problem-with-disclosure/#comment-23877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aunt Deb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4648#comment-23877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The essay on sociopathic behavior was in the New Yorker, November 10, 2008, entitled Suffering Souls by John Seabrook -- available online.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The essay on sociopathic behavior was in the New Yorker, November 10, 2008, entitled Suffering Souls by John Seabrook &#8212; available online.</p>
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