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	<title>Comments on: The Case for Capital Controls, Again</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Martyn Strong</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-22550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martyn Strong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-22550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Capital markets are unstable. In the past there was no way to make them stable. But today we have computer power that can be used to make them stable.

By using the greater computer power of today we can have a much higher turn over of capital in the capital market. This higher turnover will make the market harder to game or control and the market will no longer have the unstable run ups or declines. Who can change or control the market when say 20% of the capital is trading each day?

So now that we have the compute power to provide for all these transactions that will smooth out the market how do we force people to turn over at a rate of 20% a day? Easy, put a cap gains tax of 0% (zero) on all gains of 7 days or less and put a cap gains tax of 90% of all gains of more than 7 days.

The likes of Yahoo, Micosoft and/or Sun Micro Systems will give us the systems that will provide automated software agents to support turning over one&#039;s investments every 7 days (based on the specs you give the agent).

A system like this will make the financial markets work as smoothly as the local fruit market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capital markets are unstable. In the past there was no way to make them stable. But today we have computer power that can be used to make them stable.</p>
<p>By using the greater computer power of today we can have a much higher turn over of capital in the capital market. This higher turnover will make the market harder to game or control and the market will no longer have the unstable run ups or declines. Who can change or control the market when say 20% of the capital is trading each day?</p>
<p>So now that we have the compute power to provide for all these transactions that will smooth out the market how do we force people to turn over at a rate of 20% a day? Easy, put a cap gains tax of 0% (zero) on all gains of 7 days or less and put a cap gains tax of 90% of all gains of more than 7 days.</p>
<p>The likes of Yahoo, Micosoft and/or Sun Micro Systems will give us the systems that will provide automated software agents to support turning over one&#8217;s investments every 7 days (based on the specs you give the agent).</p>
<p>A system like this will make the financial markets work as smoothly as the local fruit market.</p>
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		<title>By: Duski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-22266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-22266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If bankers and investors are systematically too stupid to avoid too much speculation, banking itself must be done by government; or short-time speculation profits must be taxed heavily enough to make it much less appealing.

Too much capital inflows? Tax them. Tax them heavily enough that speculation (short time profit) simply stops. Or tax short time profit, say, like 90%. That way governments will have plenty of cash to deal with potential problems speculators create. Also losing 90% potential profits simply means that it is probably not worth taking risk. 

Most of the problems come from everyone rushing to gain short-time profits. This is what must be stopped, it will only violently go worse over time. Tax short time investment / speculation profits. Very heavily.

Yes, make the money stop once it invested for a while. Then you will see true risk assessments for longer periods.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If bankers and investors are systematically too stupid to avoid too much speculation, banking itself must be done by government; or short-time speculation profits must be taxed heavily enough to make it much less appealing.</p>
<p>Too much capital inflows? Tax them. Tax them heavily enough that speculation (short time profit) simply stops. Or tax short time profit, say, like 90%. That way governments will have plenty of cash to deal with potential problems speculators create. Also losing 90% potential profits simply means that it is probably not worth taking risk. </p>
<p>Most of the problems come from everyone rushing to gain short-time profits. This is what must be stopped, it will only violently go worse over time. Tax short time investment / speculation profits. Very heavily.</p>
<p>Yes, make the money stop once it invested for a while. Then you will see true risk assessments for longer periods.</p>
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		<title>By: srb</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21934</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[srb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clarification - if the point is just that capital inflow will defeat any attempt to control asset prices with increase rates, that&#039;s straightforward enough.  The wording &quot;further the run-up&quot; seems to go further and say it will actually make matters worse - if that&#039;s what&#039;s intended, my question stands.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification &#8211; if the point is just that capital inflow will defeat any attempt to control asset prices with increase rates, that&#8217;s straightforward enough.  The wording &#8220;further the run-up&#8221; seems to go further and say it will actually make matters worse &#8211; if that&#8217;s what&#8217;s intended, my question stands.</p>
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		<title>By: srb</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[srb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Krugman&#039;s post is on stopping capital outflows in a &quot;run on the bank&quot; analogy;  Simon is concerned about capital inflows.  I confess to be missing a key piece of his argument.  The result (through capital inflows) of the increase interest rate is said to be &quot;further the run-up of asset prices&quot; etc.  This must mean either (a) the capital inflow has the effect of shifting the asset demand curve out, or (b) there is credit rationing in the initial state, which is reduced or eliminated by the capital inflows.  Would like to understand which and the underlying mechanism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krugman&#8217;s post is on stopping capital outflows in a &#8220;run on the bank&#8221; analogy;  Simon is concerned about capital inflows.  I confess to be missing a key piece of his argument.  The result (through capital inflows) of the increase interest rate is said to be &#8220;further the run-up of asset prices&#8221; etc.  This must mean either (a) the capital inflow has the effect of shifting the asset demand curve out, or (b) there is credit rationing in the initial state, which is reduced or eliminated by the capital inflows.  Would like to understand which and the underlying mechanism.</p>
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		<title>By: Taunter</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21886</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Taunter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 06:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The tax on stock trades seems like a good idea for the more basic reason that it&#039;s a very easy way to raise revenue.  For years we survived on essentially a 12.5 cent tax per share, back when stocks were traded in eighths.  People still invested, people still made money.

Now that the tax does not accrue to the broker-dealer market, apparently it&#039;s un-American.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tax on stock trades seems like a good idea for the more basic reason that it&#8217;s a very easy way to raise revenue.  For years we survived on essentially a 12.5 cent tax per share, back when stocks were traded in eighths.  People still invested, people still made money.</p>
<p>Now that the tax does not accrue to the broker-dealer market, apparently it&#8217;s un-American.</p>
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		<title>By: Taunter</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Taunter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 06:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Krugman had a good post on this a decade ago:
http://www.slate.com/id/35534/

I think other comments here imply the same question, but I&#039;ll make it explicit: how does a country impose capital controls and retain the credibility that (a) the controls will not be operated entirely for the benefit of select insiders; (b) the controls will not be turned into a ratchet, where money simply cannot get out?

One of the lessons I would hope people take of the events of September is that even the US, with deep markets and a stated fidelity to the rule of law, will throw all of that over the side in a perceived crisis.  The steps the Fed/Treasury took would have been considered absurd a year earlier.

How does a nation with less of a reputation - in the case of three of the BRICs, not even a reputation for governmental stability - implement this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krugman had a good post on this a decade ago:<br />
<a href="http://www.slate.com/id/35534/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/35534/</a></p>
<p>I think other comments here imply the same question, but I&#8217;ll make it explicit: how does a country impose capital controls and retain the credibility that (a) the controls will not be operated entirely for the benefit of select insiders; (b) the controls will not be turned into a ratchet, where money simply cannot get out?</p>
<p>One of the lessons I would hope people take of the events of September is that even the US, with deep markets and a stated fidelity to the rule of law, will throw all of that over the side in a perceived crisis.  The steps the Fed/Treasury took would have been considered absurd a year earlier.</p>
<p>How does a nation with less of a reputation &#8211; in the case of three of the BRICs, not even a reputation for governmental stability &#8211; implement this?</p>
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		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These are all good points, particularly the one about local borrowing in foreign currencies (short term is bad, but even medium term can be dangerous).

Also, as China has demonstrated, the existence of a tobin tax (which like all good Pigovian taxes actually raises revenue while discourage bad behavior instead of good behavior) can be used both to both decelerate and accelerate money in asset markets - meaning it will need to be controlled by an independent agency (and insulated from political forces).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are all good points, particularly the one about local borrowing in foreign currencies (short term is bad, but even medium term can be dangerous).</p>
<p>Also, as China has demonstrated, the existence of a tobin tax (which like all good Pigovian taxes actually raises revenue while discourage bad behavior instead of good behavior) can be used both to both decelerate and accelerate money in asset markets &#8211; meaning it will need to be controlled by an independent agency (and insulated from political forces).</p>
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		<title>By: apachecadillac</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[apachecadillac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A separate but related phenomena is the recent Chinese propensity to enter into what are in effect bilateral currency support agreements, mostly with other Asian countries, but, also, I believe, Argentina.  It&#039;s also worth remembering that the &#039;new&#039; voices at the G20 table, having been on the receiving end of the unpleasantness of a decade ago, have a distinctly different perspective from that of the old G7 countries, even if they refrain from braying anti-semitism, a la Malaysia.

I do wonder what form those capital controls might take, since deterring inflows is rather a different business from arresting outflows.  And the overseas Chinese are an opaque group, to put it mildly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A separate but related phenomena is the recent Chinese propensity to enter into what are in effect bilateral currency support agreements, mostly with other Asian countries, but, also, I believe, Argentina.  It&#8217;s also worth remembering that the &#8216;new&#8217; voices at the G20 table, having been on the receiving end of the unpleasantness of a decade ago, have a distinctly different perspective from that of the old G7 countries, even if they refrain from braying anti-semitism, a la Malaysia.</p>
<p>I do wonder what form those capital controls might take, since deterring inflows is rather a different business from arresting outflows.  And the overseas Chinese are an opaque group, to put it mildly.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrice Ayme</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrice Ayme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Deeper local markets, as in the USA, as a prevention against Goldman Sachs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deeper local markets, as in the USA, as a prevention against Goldman Sachs?</p>
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		<title>By: David Nowakowski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nowakowski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most economists think one can add capital controls, and that&#039;s that, speculators will leave you alone or behave rationally and never panic. Just as the 2nd and 3rd of the &quot;trinity&quot;, the FX rate and local i-rates, need to be flexible and managed properly, capital controls are not just ON/OFF, but need to be calibrated and adjusted.

What is the right way for authorities to manage inflows and outflows on the capital account, Simon? For how long should money be required to stay onshore before penalties are lifted? When should the Tobin Tax be raised? How much should they allow repatriation? To what extent ought the government allow locals to invest abroad?

I totally agree that some limits on hot money (especially short-term external debt that is used by local banks to fund domestic investment) is a great idea. But the best way for advanced, large financial systems to be run is not the way Argentina or Venezuela or Russia or China do it -- by dictat -- but to develop deeper local markets, have an appropriate exchange rate (which BS has commented on recently) and coordinate fiscal and monetary policy properly. At least try orthodox tools before going down the unconventional route!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most economists think one can add capital controls, and that&#8217;s that, speculators will leave you alone or behave rationally and never panic. Just as the 2nd and 3rd of the &#8220;trinity&#8221;, the FX rate and local i-rates, need to be flexible and managed properly, capital controls are not just ON/OFF, but need to be calibrated and adjusted.</p>
<p>What is the right way for authorities to manage inflows and outflows on the capital account, Simon? For how long should money be required to stay onshore before penalties are lifted? When should the Tobin Tax be raised? How much should they allow repatriation? To what extent ought the government allow locals to invest abroad?</p>
<p>I totally agree that some limits on hot money (especially short-term external debt that is used by local banks to fund domestic investment) is a great idea. But the best way for advanced, large financial systems to be run is not the way Argentina or Venezuela or Russia or China do it &#8212; by dictat &#8212; but to develop deeper local markets, have an appropriate exchange rate (which BS has commented on recently) and coordinate fiscal and monetary policy properly. At least try orthodox tools before going down the unconventional route!</p>
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		<title>By: The Raven</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Raven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the viewpoint of labor and the environment, this is probably a very good thing: if it&#039;s harder for capital to move to areas of cheap labor and poor environmental regulation, labor gets paid a little more and environmental regulations have more bite.  (Only CO2 crosses borders.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the viewpoint of labor and the environment, this is probably a very good thing: if it&#8217;s harder for capital to move to areas of cheap labor and poor environmental regulation, labor gets paid a little more and environmental regulations have more bite.  (Only CO2 crosses borders.)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Would capital controls abroad force the US to remain the global capital sink hole it has been for so long? This would appear to enforce the very global imbalances people seek to reduce.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would capital controls abroad force the US to remain the global capital sink hole it has been for so long? This would appear to enforce the very global imbalances people seek to reduce.</p>
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		<title>By: jake chase</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jake chase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not worried about capital flooding into china. I am worried about having to bail out Goldman again after it loses all the money it flings into china in order to capitalize on another asset bubble there. Lloyd, I simply cannot afford to pay another two hundred billion, but I hope this speculation works out better for you than the credit swaps did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not worried about capital flooding into china. I am worried about having to bail out Goldman again after it loses all the money it flings into china in order to capitalize on another asset bubble there. Lloyd, I simply cannot afford to pay another two hundred billion, but I hope this speculation works out better for you than the credit swaps did.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I posted this over on the Economix blog, but I think another good way to look at this is the way Padma Desai puts it:

1. A capital account open to foreign inflows (no capital controls)
2. A fixed exchange rate
3. Independent monetary policy (ability to adjust interest rates at will to curb bubbles)

Pick two of the three.

It’s not just the United States under the Clinton Administration that pushed the combination of 1 and 3—let’s not forget the IMF (including during Professor Johnson’s tenure). It seems to work pretty well for very well established economies with low to moderate growth rates and stable industries. Not so much the victims of the East Asian financial crisis in 1997, for instance.

China, notably, has been doing quite well with 2 and 3. The disappointment from US critics of Chinese currency policies is largely due to the fact that they are missing out on the investment opportunities here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this over on the Economix blog, but I think another good way to look at this is the way Padma Desai puts it:</p>
<p>1. A capital account open to foreign inflows (no capital controls)<br />
2. A fixed exchange rate<br />
3. Independent monetary policy (ability to adjust interest rates at will to curb bubbles)</p>
<p>Pick two of the three.</p>
<p>It’s not just the United States under the Clinton Administration that pushed the combination of 1 and 3—let’s not forget the IMF (including during Professor Johnson’s tenure). It seems to work pretty well for very well established economies with low to moderate growth rates and stable industries. Not so much the victims of the East Asian financial crisis in 1997, for instance.</p>
<p>China, notably, has been doing quite well with 2 and 3. The disappointment from US critics of Chinese currency policies is largely due to the fact that they are missing out on the investment opportunities here.</p>
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		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/30/the-case-for-capital-controls-again/#comment-21792</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4511#comment-21792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s reason for hope, since China seems to have a better grasp of financial markets than we do.  Hence, they use a tax on stock trades to help limit bubbles and restore confidence (when needed).  It&#039;s a combination Pigou/Tobin tax!!! (raises revenue, limits non-productive behavior, is a tool to control bubbles, stops excessive short term liquidity).

Sometimes they raise it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/worldbusiness/30cnd-yuan.html

Sometimes they lower it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=anrG7MXuH4eI

Such a tax might help in the US, as well, but preventing certain wall street firms from taking advantage of faster-than-normal information on trading activity using flash-execution trading programs...  which apparently accounts for a large portion of increases in &quot;trading profits&quot; over the last 5 years at places like Goldman Sachs...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/business/24trading.html

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this one.  There is a natural alliance between certain factions of Wall Street who don&#039;t use the high-frequency trading programs and using a Pigou/Tobin tax on trades (like China).

But in the other corner of the ring we have Super Heavy Weight Champion of the World, Goldman &quot;The Insider&quot; Sachs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s reason for hope, since China seems to have a better grasp of financial markets than we do.  Hence, they use a tax on stock trades to help limit bubbles and restore confidence (when needed).  It&#8217;s a combination Pigou/Tobin tax!!! (raises revenue, limits non-productive behavior, is a tool to control bubbles, stops excessive short term liquidity).</p>
<p>Sometimes they raise it:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/worldbusiness/30cnd-yuan.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/worldbusiness/30cnd-yuan.html</a></p>
<p>Sometimes they lower it:<br />
<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=anrG7MXuH4eI" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=anrG7MXuH4eI</a></p>
<p>Such a tax might help in the US, as well, but preventing certain wall street firms from taking advantage of faster-than-normal information on trading activity using flash-execution trading programs&#8230;  which apparently accounts for a large portion of increases in &#8220;trading profits&#8221; over the last 5 years at places like Goldman Sachs&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/business/24trading.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/business/24trading.html</a></p>
<p>It will be interesting to see the outcome of this one.  There is a natural alliance between certain factions of Wall Street who don&#8217;t use the high-frequency trading programs and using a Pigou/Tobin tax on trades (like China).</p>
<p>But in the other corner of the ring we have Super Heavy Weight Champion of the World, Goldman &#8220;The Insider&#8221; Sachs.</p>
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