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	<title>Comments on: The G7/G8: Why Bother? (A Viewer’s Guide)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Large vs Small Bank: What Is Ackermann’s Point?</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-21916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Large vs Small Bank: What Is Ackermann’s Point?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-21916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] activities, must be removed and – as Mr. Ackermann implicitly acknowledges – only action at the level of the G20 can really ensure cross-border bite on such [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] activities, must be removed and – as Mr. Ackermann implicitly acknowledges – only action at the level of the G20 can really ensure cross-border bite on such [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What Is Josef Ackermann&#8217;s Point? &#171; The Baseline Scenario</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-21895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What Is Josef Ackermann&#8217;s Point? &#171; The Baseline Scenario]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-21895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] activities, must be removed and – as Mr. Ackermann implicitly acknowledges – only action at the level of the G20 can really ensure cross-border bite on such [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] activities, must be removed and – as Mr. Ackermann implicitly acknowledges – only action at the level of the G20 can really ensure cross-border bite on such [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nguyen</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-20085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nguyen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-20085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the point of view of an average Vietnamese like me, France, Italy or Canada is no important than Thailand, Singapore or Indonesia in economic or politic clout. If there is any group of nations relevant to the world economy in 21 century, it should only be G3 (in that order): China, US and Eurozone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the point of view of an average Vietnamese like me, France, Italy or Canada is no important than Thailand, Singapore or Indonesia in economic or politic clout. If there is any group of nations relevant to the world economy in 21 century, it should only be G3 (in that order): China, US and Eurozone.</p>
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		<title>By: solsburyhill</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[solsburyhill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Such a waste of time.

The man-made global warming hoax must be exposed before it&#039;s getting too late.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a waste of time.</p>
<p>The man-made global warming hoax must be exposed before it&#8217;s getting too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Lavrenti Beria</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19511</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lavrenti Beria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, you go tell &#039;em. Just grab Obama and Geithner by the scruft of the neck and knock some sense into their heads about outsourcing and our disappearing manufacturing base and their relation to the 19th century conditions prevailing in China. Why they&#039;re just sure to listen to you and do something about it. And if they don&#039;t, threaten to vote for somebody else next time, somebody else you&#039;ll need to grab by the scruft of the neck and knock some sense into about outsourcing and our disappearing manufacturing base and their relation to the 19th century conditions prevailing in China. 

Some news: Obama and Geithner, Bush and Paulson are why these problems exist in the first place and why they will never see a solution in the context of the present system through the use of parliamentary remedies. Sometimes we grasp these things slowly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, you go tell &#8216;em. Just grab Obama and Geithner by the scruft of the neck and knock some sense into their heads about outsourcing and our disappearing manufacturing base and their relation to the 19th century conditions prevailing in China. Why they&#8217;re just sure to listen to you and do something about it. And if they don&#8217;t, threaten to vote for somebody else next time, somebody else you&#8217;ll need to grab by the scruft of the neck and knock some sense into about outsourcing and our disappearing manufacturing base and their relation to the 19th century conditions prevailing in China. </p>
<p>Some news: Obama and Geithner, Bush and Paulson are why these problems exist in the first place and why they will never see a solution in the context of the present system through the use of parliamentary remedies. Sometimes we grasp these things slowly.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lavrenti Beria</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lavrenti Beria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why bother, you ask? Why else than to provide a lavish backdrop for the pigs that want to meet, eat expensive food, and appear to be doing the peoples&#039; business. The citizens of these eight nations would do well to combine to see to the trial and sentencing of these vermin for the larceny involved in the holding of these meetings alone. One day, when the little people of the world have endured enough of the kind of smug, relaxed conviviality enjoyed by this coterie of embezzlers, they will make memory of such occasions as way stations to their achievement of something more moral, more authentic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why bother, you ask? Why else than to provide a lavish backdrop for the pigs that want to meet, eat expensive food, and appear to be doing the peoples&#8217; business. The citizens of these eight nations would do well to combine to see to the trial and sentencing of these vermin for the larceny involved in the holding of these meetings alone. One day, when the little people of the world have endured enough of the kind of smug, relaxed conviviality enjoyed by this coterie of embezzlers, they will make memory of such occasions as way stations to their achievement of something more moral, more authentic.</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19509</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is fairly useless, no doubt, except, if you insist on having it, why not let it establish some hard line issues for the upcoming meeting in Pittsburg.  Then again, it has evidently generated some useful agricultural subsidies.  If the big holes stand no hope of getting plugged, plug some small ones.

Maybe next year they&#039;ll just go with more G20&#039;s and no G8.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is fairly useless, no doubt, except, if you insist on having it, why not let it establish some hard line issues for the upcoming meeting in Pittsburg.  Then again, it has evidently generated some useful agricultural subsidies.  If the big holes stand no hope of getting plugged, plug some small ones.</p>
<p>Maybe next year they&#8217;ll just go with more G20&#8242;s and no G8.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Huggan</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19507</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phillip Huggan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yay Obama!!  $15B in new agri-investment for 3rd world, that&#039;s &quot;why bother&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay Obama!!  $15B in new agri-investment for 3rd world, that&#8217;s &#8220;why bother&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: gantrants</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gantrants]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The truth is that the G8 summit won&#039;t get as much done as they would like you to believe. A free exchange of ideas may be the best thing that comes from the G8 summit. News stations from all over the world question its validity and strength. http://www.newsy.com/videos/g8_summit_a_question_of_effectiveness]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The truth is that the G8 summit won&#8217;t get as much done as they would like you to believe. A free exchange of ideas may be the best thing that comes from the G8 summit. News stations from all over the world question its validity and strength. <a href="http://www.newsy.com/videos/g8_summit_a_question_of_effectiveness" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsy.com/videos/g8_summit_a_question_of_effectiveness</a></p>
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		<title>By: Patrice Ayme</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrice Ayme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why bother with the G7/G8? Because European construction shows that it is better to talk issues to death rather than been killed by issues. 

There are clear perception splits between Americans and Europeans, and much more drastically with the Russians, who are still out there in a cold fog, fuming with the desire of getting even, and a miscomprehensions about the rights of other nations (many Russian advisers believe the USA should have a right to own the Americas, like Russia has a right to own the old USSR in its entirety).

As Churchill put it, Jaw-jaw is better than war-war. War is what happened with Georgia, last summer.  

Patrice Ayme]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why bother with the G7/G8? Because European construction shows that it is better to talk issues to death rather than been killed by issues. </p>
<p>There are clear perception splits between Americans and Europeans, and much more drastically with the Russians, who are still out there in a cold fog, fuming with the desire of getting even, and a miscomprehensions about the rights of other nations (many Russian advisers believe the USA should have a right to own the Americas, like Russia has a right to own the old USSR in its entirety).</p>
<p>As Churchill put it, Jaw-jaw is better than war-war. War is what happened with Georgia, last summer.  </p>
<p>Patrice Ayme</p>
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		<title>By: Lex Wadelski</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lex Wadelski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent observation.

The G7 and G8 are certainly outdated.

The BRIC, with Indonesia added, needs to be
included in the world&#039;s financial discussion.

A conference call would also save tons of carbon emissions from leaders&#039; planes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent observation.</p>
<p>The G7 and G8 are certainly outdated.</p>
<p>The BRIC, with Indonesia added, needs to be<br />
included in the world&#8217;s financial discussion.</p>
<p>A conference call would also save tons of carbon emissions from leaders&#8217; planes.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Antoinette</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marie Antoinette]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought it was primarily an opportunity for Michelle to show off her buff arms and swap recipes with other first wives.  As such it&#039;ll be a great triumph for America.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was primarily an opportunity for Michelle to show off her buff arms and swap recipes with other first wives.  As such it&#8217;ll be a great triumph for America.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: apachecadillac</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[apachecadillac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sir--

To answer your questions in the order offered:

Why Bother/What&#039;s the Point?  If Hu Jintao can&#039;t answer this question, how can you expect me to?  Neither of us heads up a G7 state, though he does have a better claim to public visibility than those of us down on the Rez.

Important or frivolous?  Compared to attending the Michael Jackson memorial service or answering questions raised by your prostitute, important.  The minute public optics shift, the pageantry will be populated with B list.  I daresay Hu left a Chinese observer behind when he returned to address more pressing matters.  Maybe a ministry official of Sino-German heritage named Bi Lizst?

Why talk individually to Germany, Italy, France and Britain?  Because it makes the populations and policy elites of those countries feel more important than than if they were, say, Brazilian, Indian or Mexican.  It&#039;s not all about the American ego and self-centered complacency.  Smug self-absorption is a developed world disease, not an American one.

So, how&#039;d I do on your little quiz?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir&#8211;</p>
<p>To answer your questions in the order offered:</p>
<p>Why Bother/What&#8217;s the Point?  If Hu Jintao can&#8217;t answer this question, how can you expect me to?  Neither of us heads up a G7 state, though he does have a better claim to public visibility than those of us down on the Rez.</p>
<p>Important or frivolous?  Compared to attending the Michael Jackson memorial service or answering questions raised by your prostitute, important.  The minute public optics shift, the pageantry will be populated with B list.  I daresay Hu left a Chinese observer behind when he returned to address more pressing matters.  Maybe a ministry official of Sino-German heritage named Bi Lizst?</p>
<p>Why talk individually to Germany, Italy, France and Britain?  Because it makes the populations and policy elites of those countries feel more important than than if they were, say, Brazilian, Indian or Mexican.  It&#8217;s not all about the American ego and self-centered complacency.  Smug self-absorption is a developed world disease, not an American one.</p>
<p>So, how&#8217;d I do on your little quiz?</p>
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		<title>By: The Case Against The G8 - The Plank</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19483</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Case Against The G8 - The Plank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] [Cross-posted at The Baseline Scenario.] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Cross-posted at The Baseline Scenario.] [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StatsGuy</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/07/08/the-g7g8-why-bother-a-viewer%e2%80%99s-guide/#comment-19480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StatsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4296#comment-19480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please add this to your list:

Point 4)

The movement of global capital and currencies has dramatically accelerated in the last 30 years.  Yet G7/G8 meetings remain relatively infrequent.  They are neither large nor inclusive enough to allow big/deep change (as SJ notes), but are not frequent enough so serve as a week-to-week policy coordination vehicle.

If anything, the G7/G8 is harmful, because it gives our fearfully doe-eyed Treasury team an excuse to delay action that should be rapid and forceful.

In this recent crisis, the only really big significant coordinated policy move (the simultaneous lowering of rates by central banks) occurred early in the crisis and without the benefit of a G7/G8 meeting.  (It was one of the few things that gave us some hope of a real response, only to leave us feeling betrayed when it was followed by months of bickering and incompetence as the entire world economy ground to a halt.)

The second largest policy initiative (more funding for the IMF) occurred at the G20 (and was carefully negotiated prior).

Increasingly, the G7/G8 seems like an excuse to do nothing &quot;until the next meeting&quot;, while its member countries get eaten alive by their own inaction and their failure to respond to the mercantilist policies of their trading partners.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please add this to your list:</p>
<p>Point 4)</p>
<p>The movement of global capital and currencies has dramatically accelerated in the last 30 years.  Yet G7/G8 meetings remain relatively infrequent.  They are neither large nor inclusive enough to allow big/deep change (as SJ notes), but are not frequent enough so serve as a week-to-week policy coordination vehicle.</p>
<p>If anything, the G7/G8 is harmful, because it gives our fearfully doe-eyed Treasury team an excuse to delay action that should be rapid and forceful.</p>
<p>In this recent crisis, the only really big significant coordinated policy move (the simultaneous lowering of rates by central banks) occurred early in the crisis and without the benefit of a G7/G8 meeting.  (It was one of the few things that gave us some hope of a real response, only to leave us feeling betrayed when it was followed by months of bickering and incompetence as the entire world economy ground to a halt.)</p>
<p>The second largest policy initiative (more funding for the IMF) occurred at the G20 (and was carefully negotiated prior).</p>
<p>Increasingly, the G7/G8 seems like an excuse to do nothing &#8220;until the next meeting&#8221;, while its member countries get eaten alive by their own inaction and their failure to respond to the mercantilist policies of their trading partners.</p>
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