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	<title>Comments on: Statistics and Basketball for Beginners</title>
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		<title>By: Science for investigators &#171; flâneur de fraude</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-20137</link>
		<dc:creator>Science for investigators &#171; flâneur de fraude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-20137</guid>
		<description>[...] 15, 2009 &#183; Leave a Comment  I recently found the podcast/radio program Radiolab through a post on The Baseline Scenario.  It&#8217;s a great science show with similar production to This [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 15, 2009 &middot; Leave a Comment  I recently found the podcast/radio program Radiolab through a post on The Baseline Scenario.  It&#8217;s a great science show with similar production to This [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19437</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19437</guid>
		<description>&quot;The null hypothesis of streakiness&quot;?  Streakiness is a bias, and the null hypothesis is always the lack of an underlying bias; in order to provide compelling evidence that a bias exists, you must reject the null hypothesis that there is no such bias, that the observed deviations arise from random variation.  The cited paper failed to reject the null hypothesis, and therefore fails to establish the existence of the hot hand.  That is a very far cry from establishing the NON-existence of the hot hand.

However, I do think that belief in the hot hand, in the continued absence of conclusive statistical evidence in support of it, is irrational--and I say that as someone who thinks that there probably is such a thing as a hot hand.

I think that if you contend that paper &quot;disproved the hot hand&quot; by &quot;rejecting the null hypothesis of streakiness,&quot; you&#039;ve probably misinterpreted the paper (or else misstated your understanding of it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The null hypothesis of streakiness&#8221;?  Streakiness is a bias, and the null hypothesis is always the lack of an underlying bias; in order to provide compelling evidence that a bias exists, you must reject the null hypothesis that there is no such bias, that the observed deviations arise from random variation.  The cited paper failed to reject the null hypothesis, and therefore fails to establish the existence of the hot hand.  That is a very far cry from establishing the NON-existence of the hot hand.</p>
<p>However, I do think that belief in the hot hand, in the continued absence of conclusive statistical evidence in support of it, is irrational&#8211;and I say that as someone who thinks that there probably is such a thing as a hot hand.</p>
<p>I think that if you contend that paper &#8220;disproved the hot hand&#8221; by &#8220;rejecting the null hypothesis of streakiness,&#8221; you&#8217;ve probably misinterpreted the paper (or else misstated your understanding of it).</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19436</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19436</guid>
		<description>That system is the well-known Martingale, and for it to work (assuming even money bets), there must not be a house limit, or at least you can&#039;t run into it.  And if you play enough hands, you WILL run into it; it&#039;s unavoidable.  Google Martingale and betting to see why the notion that it avoids losing in the long run (in any real world casino) is a fallacy.

So my guess is that if you aren&#039;t losing money playing blackjack, you&#039;re probably keeping track, consciously or subconsciously, of whether the deck is high or low.  That may provide enough bias to prevent you from losing in the long run.  You may feel it&#039;s the Martingale, but it isn&#039;t.

Your second point is probably an understatement.  Assuming that the last four digits are uniformly distributed, you only need to have about 118 listings on a page to get a 50-50 chance of a duplicate.  Google birthday paradox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That system is the well-known Martingale, and for it to work (assuming even money bets), there must not be a house limit, or at least you can&#8217;t run into it.  And if you play enough hands, you WILL run into it; it&#8217;s unavoidable.  Google Martingale and betting to see why the notion that it avoids losing in the long run (in any real world casino) is a fallacy.</p>
<p>So my guess is that if you aren&#8217;t losing money playing blackjack, you&#8217;re probably keeping track, consciously or subconsciously, of whether the deck is high or low.  That may provide enough bias to prevent you from losing in the long run.  You may feel it&#8217;s the Martingale, but it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Your second point is probably an understatement.  Assuming that the last four digits are uniformly distributed, you only need to have about 118 listings on a page to get a 50-50 chance of a duplicate.  Google birthday paradox.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19434</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19434</guid>
		<description>jonboinAR: It is indisputable that shooters FEEL hot.  Whether or not they actually ARE hot hasn&#039;t yet been settled (to my satisfaction, at least).  And the easiest person to fool is yourself, which is why your own feeling of being hot is not compelling.  No offense intended, &#039;cause it&#039;s human nature, but objectively it&#039;s not convincing.  (For what it&#039;s worth, I do feel my shooting get hot from time to time.  And cold, too.)

One thing that happens a lot is result merchanting.  You of course intend to put the ball in the hole, so when it does get in the hole, it obviously did what you wanted.  And when that happens several times in a row, the obvious explanation is that you&#039;re zoned in, that your body is executing what you want it to do better than usual.  In a certain sense, it clearly is, but the question (as always) is whether it&#039;s doing that for some basal physiological reason, or whether it&#039;s just random variation.  The infuriating thing is that you aren&#039;t a reliable judge of which it is, because your brain insists on using results as a diagnostic test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jonboinAR: It is indisputable that shooters FEEL hot.  Whether or not they actually ARE hot hasn&#8217;t yet been settled (to my satisfaction, at least).  And the easiest person to fool is yourself, which is why your own feeling of being hot is not compelling.  No offense intended, &#8217;cause it&#8217;s human nature, but objectively it&#8217;s not convincing.  (For what it&#8217;s worth, I do feel my shooting get hot from time to time.  And cold, too.)</p>
<p>One thing that happens a lot is result merchanting.  You of course intend to put the ball in the hole, so when it does get in the hole, it obviously did what you wanted.  And when that happens several times in a row, the obvious explanation is that you&#8217;re zoned in, that your body is executing what you want it to do better than usual.  In a certain sense, it clearly is, but the question (as always) is whether it&#8217;s doing that for some basal physiological reason, or whether it&#8217;s just random variation.  The infuriating thing is that you aren&#8217;t a reliable judge of which it is, because your brain insists on using results as a diagnostic test.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19433</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19433</guid>
		<description>Are we sure the paper states specifically that the &quot;hot hand&quot; doesn&#039;t exist?  I thought it said that there was no conclusive evidence supporting the &quot;hot hand.&quot;  Those are very different statements.

My intuition says that the &quot;hot hand&quot; exists, but is more of a lukewarm hand, or perhaps more the lack of a &quot;cold hand.&quot;  (The idea in the latter case being that you have an optimal &quot;true&quot; shooting accuracy, and as long as nothing is hampering that, like an injury or an illness--a cold hand, essentially--you shoot with that true shooting accuracy, and everything else is random variation.)  The hot hand, assuming it exists, is probably pretty weak and easily swamped by other factors (such as an uptick in the shooter&#039;s confidence leading to poorer shot selection); otherwise, it would be easy to discern.

I also think it&#039;s important to remember the true value of the paper--not its conclusions, because anyone can draw mistaken conclusions--but the actual experiments and measurements.  Don&#039;t throw the baby out with the bathwater.


@Pyramid: The terms are ill-defined in large part because the phenomenon hasn&#039;t been clearly identified in the data yet.  Once you identify the phenomenon (again, assuming it exists), then you can better define it.  But at this point it&#039;s still in the &quot;black cat in a dark room&quot; stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we sure the paper states specifically that the &#8220;hot hand&#8221; doesn&#8217;t exist?  I thought it said that there was no conclusive evidence supporting the &#8220;hot hand.&#8221;  Those are very different statements.</p>
<p>My intuition says that the &#8220;hot hand&#8221; exists, but is more of a lukewarm hand, or perhaps more the lack of a &#8220;cold hand.&#8221;  (The idea in the latter case being that you have an optimal &#8220;true&#8221; shooting accuracy, and as long as nothing is hampering that, like an injury or an illness&#8211;a cold hand, essentially&#8211;you shoot with that true shooting accuracy, and everything else is random variation.)  The hot hand, assuming it exists, is probably pretty weak and easily swamped by other factors (such as an uptick in the shooter&#8217;s confidence leading to poorer shot selection); otherwise, it would be easy to discern.</p>
<p>I also think it&#8217;s important to remember the true value of the paper&#8211;not its conclusions, because anyone can draw mistaken conclusions&#8211;but the actual experiments and measurements.  Don&#8217;t throw the baby out with the bathwater.</p>
<p>@Pyramid: The terms are ill-defined in large part because the phenomenon hasn&#8217;t been clearly identified in the data yet.  Once you identify the phenomenon (again, assuming it exists), then you can better define it.  But at this point it&#8217;s still in the &#8220;black cat in a dark room&#8221; stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Some guy in a Pyramid</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19353</link>
		<dc:creator>Some guy in a Pyramid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19353</guid>
		<description>The problem here is that in most cases, the words &quot;clutch&quot; and &quot;streaky&quot; are not defined specifically enough.

If you define them specifically enough, you will have a fewer disagreements, because really most of the arguments are about what the words actually mean and imply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is that in most cases, the words &#8220;clutch&#8221; and &#8220;streaky&#8221; are not defined specifically enough.</p>
<p>If you define them specifically enough, you will have a fewer disagreements, because really most of the arguments are about what the words actually mean and imply.</p>
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		<title>By: GrayZ</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19347</link>
		<dc:creator>GrayZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19347</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s as simple as that, as most countries / states have some sort of sales tax.

I think 1/100 is the right odds, unless you are in a US state without sales tax in which case I&#039;d expect to see a bias towards .99, .98, .97...  I wonder what the average number of items purchased is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as simple as that, as most countries / states have some sort of sales tax.</p>
<p>I think 1/100 is the right odds, unless you are in a US state without sales tax in which case I&#8217;d expect to see a bias towards .99, .98, .97&#8230;  I wonder what the average number of items purchased is?</p>
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		<title>By: sui generis</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19344</link>
		<dc:creator>sui generis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19344</guid>
		<description>&quot;But if you look at all the lotteries and all the lottery winners everywhere, it would be shocking if you didn’t have repeat winners.&quot;

Hah!  You claim to understand probability and randomness and then you post this?  Physician, heal thyself!

Is it &quot;shocking&quot; to have repeat winners?  No.  Would it be &quot;shocking&quot; if we did not have repeat winners?  Decidedly NOT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But if you look at all the lotteries and all the lottery winners everywhere, it would be shocking if you didn’t have repeat winners.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hah!  You claim to understand probability and randomness and then you post this?  Physician, heal thyself!</p>
<p>Is it &#8220;shocking&#8221; to have repeat winners?  No.  Would it be &#8220;shocking&#8221; if we did not have repeat winners?  Decidedly NOT.</p>
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		<title>By: some guy in a cube</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19260</link>
		<dc:creator>some guy in a cube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19260</guid>
		<description>When it comes to &quot;hot hands&quot; and investing, I prefer to be in the market during those times when even a dart-throwing chimp can make money, and in cash the rest of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to &#8220;hot hands&#8221; and investing, I prefer to be in the market during those times when even a dart-throwing chimp can make money, and in cash the rest of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting Reads 4th of July &#124; OneMint</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19240</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Reads 4th of July &#124; OneMint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19240</guid>
		<description>[...] Statistics and Baseball for Beginners @ Baselinescenario [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Statistics and Baseball for Beginners @ Baselinescenario [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B Collins</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19216</link>
		<dc:creator>B Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19216</guid>
		<description>So, what&#039;s yer first favorite radio show?

BC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what&#8217;s yer first favorite radio show?</p>
<p>BC</p>
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		<title>By: Katharine</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19185</link>
		<dc:creator>Katharine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19185</guid>
		<description>Statistics does after all deal with probabilities, very instructively, and sometimes very beautifully, but still not with certainties.  One uses the results to make judgments, and sometimes choices, but if one mistakes them for hard reality one is missing the point.  Even if the significance level is &lt;.001 there is still that almost-one-in-a-thousand chance the implied conclusion is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Statistics does after all deal with probabilities, very instructively, and sometimes very beautifully, but still not with certainties.  One uses the results to make judgments, and sometimes choices, but if one mistakes them for hard reality one is missing the point.  Even if the significance level is &lt;.001 there is still that almost-one-in-a-thousand chance the implied conclusion is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: jonboinAR</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19160</link>
		<dc:creator>jonboinAR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19160</guid>
		<description>Bayard, will you tell me your system?

I&#039;m here to tell y&#039;all, there is such a thing as a &quot;hot streak&quot; in sports. You must know that. I&#039;m no athlete, by any means. In the little bit of sports I have played, golf, intramural basketball, whatever, occasionally I&#039;ve gotten &quot;hot&quot;. Suddenly, for a time, I can&#039;t miss a putt under ten feet. It&#039;s not a statistical accident either. I can SEE the line in a way I&#039;m normally unable to. The least athletic amongst those posting here have also played sports about like I have, I imagine. You know that on occasion your probability for success changes for a time, either for the better or for the worse. It&#039;s a feedback loop thingy, I imagine.

If studies don&#039;t show that, perhaps the fault lies with the methodology... or the interpretation. I imagine with studies and statistics the devil is in the interpretation a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bayard, will you tell me your system?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m here to tell y&#8217;all, there is such a thing as a &#8220;hot streak&#8221; in sports. You must know that. I&#8217;m no athlete, by any means. In the little bit of sports I have played, golf, intramural basketball, whatever, occasionally I&#8217;ve gotten &#8220;hot&#8221;. Suddenly, for a time, I can&#8217;t miss a putt under ten feet. It&#8217;s not a statistical accident either. I can SEE the line in a way I&#8217;m normally unable to. The least athletic amongst those posting here have also played sports about like I have, I imagine. You know that on occasion your probability for success changes for a time, either for the better or for the worse. It&#8217;s a feedback loop thingy, I imagine.</p>
<p>If studies don&#8217;t show that, perhaps the fault lies with the methodology&#8230; or the interpretation. I imagine with studies and statistics the devil is in the interpretation a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: GAF</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19152</link>
		<dc:creator>GAF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19152</guid>
		<description>The influence of non-quantifiable factors is present in every example (basketball, equity markets, etc.) Sometimes the variables are information-based, other times they are based on physics, or weather, or other factors. The important question relates to the time horizon of the analysis, and the relevance of a snapshot in time that is a short period of either normal or abnormal behavior. It is statistically possible to have a shooting streak or a &quot;tails&quot; streak, or a winning stock market streak, regardless of how low the numerical probability. Drawing inferences based on small sample sizes or anomalous events is a very common occurrence in the media, and particularly in the &quot;hot topics&quot; of behavioral economics. 

Only when one looks at very long periods of time can broad mathematical theories be inferred, particularly statistical theories. This is certainly the case with regard to basketball and also with regard to the stock market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The influence of non-quantifiable factors is present in every example (basketball, equity markets, etc.) Sometimes the variables are information-based, other times they are based on physics, or weather, or other factors. The important question relates to the time horizon of the analysis, and the relevance of a snapshot in time that is a short period of either normal or abnormal behavior. It is statistically possible to have a shooting streak or a &#8220;tails&#8221; streak, or a winning stock market streak, regardless of how low the numerical probability. Drawing inferences based on small sample sizes or anomalous events is a very common occurrence in the media, and particularly in the &#8220;hot topics&#8221; of behavioral economics. </p>
<p>Only when one looks at very long periods of time can broad mathematical theories be inferred, particularly statistical theories. This is certainly the case with regard to basketball and also with regard to the stock market.</p>
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		<title>By: jhm</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/30/statistics-and-basketball-for-beginners/#comment-19141</link>
		<dc:creator>jhm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4152#comment-19141</guid>
		<description>Very interesting.  I would say that comparing the basketball and the mutual fund cases is misleading.  In investing at least half (and probably more) of a calculation of an asset&#039;s value involves not what it &quot;should&quot; be worth, but what other people (and which others) will think it&#039;s worth.  On second thought, perhaps this finds an analog in the effect of the defense reacting to a shooter&#039;s &quot;streak.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting.  I would say that comparing the basketball and the mutual fund cases is misleading.  In investing at least half (and probably more) of a calculation of an asset&#8217;s value involves not what it &#8220;should&#8221; be worth, but what other people (and which others) will think it&#8217;s worth.  On second thought, perhaps this finds an analog in the effect of the defense reacting to a shooter&#8217;s &#8220;streak.&#8221;</p>
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