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	<title>Comments on: It Takes A Citi</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18716</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18716</guid>
		<description>The ratings agencies tell you it is an &quot;opinion&quot; so they are not sued if you lose money.  They want to be paid for the ratings, but the agencies don&#039;t want to be held responsible if you lose money on something they gave an AAA rating to.   If it is &quot;SOLELY statements of opinion&quot; they can&#039;t get sued because it takes away their First Amendment (free speech) rights.
It&#039;s lawyer language for &quot;You Sons of B&#039;s can&#039;t sue us if you lose money&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ratings agencies tell you it is an &#8220;opinion&#8221; so they are not sued if you lose money.  They want to be paid for the ratings, but the agencies don&#8217;t want to be held responsible if you lose money on something they gave an AAA rating to.   If it is &#8220;SOLELY statements of opinion&#8221; they can&#8217;t get sued because it takes away their First Amendment (free speech) rights.<br />
It&#8217;s lawyer language for &#8220;You Sons of B&#8217;s can&#8217;t sue us if you lose money&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Impressions for 06/26/2009 &#171; Lasting Impression</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18673</link>
		<dc:creator>Impressions for 06/26/2009 &#171; Lasting Impression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18673</guid>
		<description>[...] It Takes A Citi « The Baseline Scenario [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It Takes A Citi « The Baseline Scenario [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tippy Golden</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18653</link>
		<dc:creator>Tippy Golden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18653</guid>
		<description>Thanks James</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks James</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18643</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kwak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18643</guid>
		<description>I found your comment in the spam filter and freed it. Approximately 3-5% of the comments that go into the spam filter are actually real user comments. I check it every few days to rescue them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your comment in the spam filter and freed it. Approximately 3-5% of the comments that go into the spam filter are actually real user comments. I check it every few days to rescue them.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18642</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kwak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18642</guid>
		<description>450 bp = 4.5%. That means that if you have a Citigroup senior bond with a face value of $100 and you want to insure it against default for 5 years, you have to pay $4.50 per year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>450 bp = 4.5%. That means that if you have a Citigroup senior bond with a face value of $100 and you want to insure it against default for 5 years, you have to pay $4.50 per year.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18641</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kwak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18641</guid>
		<description>That sounds like a software glitch to me. I have never been asked to review a comment on this or any other WordPress.com blog. We do not moderate comments. There are only two reasons why a comment should not appear: (1) the spam filter (which makes mistakes sometimes) and (2) I have flags set up on a few words (profanity, insults) that force moderation.

It sounds like your first comment got saved somehow, and when you tried to reenter it the system was unhappy. One workaround if that happens again might be to edit your comment slightly so it does not look like a duplicate.

Do other people get asked to review their comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds like a software glitch to me. I have never been asked to review a comment on this or any other WordPress.com blog. We do not moderate comments. There are only two reasons why a comment should not appear: (1) the spam filter (which makes mistakes sometimes) and (2) I have flags set up on a few words (profanity, insults) that force moderation.</p>
<p>It sounds like your first comment got saved somehow, and when you tried to reenter it the system was unhappy. One workaround if that happens again might be to edit your comment slightly so it does not look like a duplicate.</p>
<p>Do other people get asked to review their comments?</p>
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		<title>By: Tippy Golden</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18612</link>
		<dc:creator>Tippy Golden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18612</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain what this means:

Citi has a CDS (Credit Default Swap) of 450 basis points (45%)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain what this means:</p>
<p>Citi has a CDS (Credit Default Swap) of 450 basis points (45%)</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18599</link>
		<dc:creator>Min</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18599</guid>
		<description>StatsGuy: &quot;Oh, and if we rebuild Glass-Steagall, we ought to put into place some separation between real retail insurance and options trading.&quot;

Yes. If we look at sustainable complex natural systems, we see not only expendable components, we see specialization with niches and organs. Such systems are inefficient, but inefficient in a good way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>StatsGuy: &#8220;Oh, and if we rebuild Glass-Steagall, we ought to put into place some separation between real retail insurance and options trading.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. If we look at sustainable complex natural systems, we see not only expendable components, we see specialization with niches and organs. Such systems are inefficient, but inefficient in a good way.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18598</link>
		<dc:creator>Min</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18598</guid>
		<description>Art: &quot;Of course. And I think subsequent pricing (within what, six months?) proved that that pre-crash pricing adequately reflected the risk. So far I do not see here or anywhere else how you can mitigate the risk in the manner we’re hoping. We all want the returns but not the risk.&quot;

The crash of &#039;87 did not kill the economy, so I am not sure if it should have been curbed. Still, if it mattered, measures could have been taken to rein in speculation. 

And I am quite skeptical of the idea that reasonably astute regulators can&#039;t smell these things. In the spring of &#039;87 even I, whose long suit is definitely not fundamental analysis, could tell that stocks were overpriced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art: &#8220;Of course. And I think subsequent pricing (within what, six months?) proved that that pre-crash pricing adequately reflected the risk. So far I do not see here or anywhere else how you can mitigate the risk in the manner we’re hoping. We all want the returns but not the risk.&#8221;</p>
<p>The crash of &#8216;87 did not kill the economy, so I am not sure if it should have been curbed. Still, if it mattered, measures could have been taken to rein in speculation. </p>
<p>And I am quite skeptical of the idea that reasonably astute regulators can&#8217;t smell these things. In the spring of &#8216;87 even I, whose long suit is definitely not fundamental analysis, could tell that stocks were overpriced.</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18595</link>
		<dc:creator>Bayard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18595</guid>
		<description>Another vote for publicly financed campaigns.  This should only be a referendum, because Congress will never pass a bill to do it.  However, the self-serving attitudes in Congress seem to rise more to the public notice every day, so revolution becomes more of an issue.  A larger full-scale collapse will ensure this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another vote for publicly financed campaigns.  This should only be a referendum, because Congress will never pass a bill to do it.  However, the self-serving attitudes in Congress seem to rise more to the public notice every day, so revolution becomes more of an issue.  A larger full-scale collapse will ensure this.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hogesteger</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18593</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hogesteger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18593</guid>
		<description>Regulatory capture is not inevitable and not all regulations fail. It is the result of how our political system works. When the United States was created one fear of the founding fathers was that the common people, by which they meant tradesmen and small farmers, would take over the government and redistribute wealth. To prevent this they deliberately created a political system in which wealth was a necessary element of political power. Politics is expensive in America in a way that is not in many other democracies. The obvious alternative to the American way of politics is Canada where election campaigns are short, political parties receive government subsidies and banking regulation works. Regulatory capture is only inevitable when politicians must raise huge sums of money to run for  office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regulatory capture is not inevitable and not all regulations fail. It is the result of how our political system works. When the United States was created one fear of the founding fathers was that the common people, by which they meant tradesmen and small farmers, would take over the government and redistribute wealth. To prevent this they deliberately created a political system in which wealth was a necessary element of political power. Politics is expensive in America in a way that is not in many other democracies. The obvious alternative to the American way of politics is Canada where election campaigns are short, political parties receive government subsidies and banking regulation works. Regulatory capture is only inevitable when politicians must raise huge sums of money to run for  office.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18592</link>
		<dc:creator>Min</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18592</guid>
		<description>@Bond Girl

I just realized the pun in your handle. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bond Girl</p>
<p>I just realized the pun in your handle. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Bayard</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18591</link>
		<dc:creator>Bayard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18591</guid>
		<description>I question the entire rationale behind the CDS.  But, if ratings matter normally, I believe that it requires a crystal ball to assess the risk of the CDS, since it&#039;s entire viability seems to rely mostly on the condition of the market place, and other competing investments.  That is aside from the ratings issues with the securities involved in underpinning the CDS&#039;s, which, if not rated properly, act as a multiplier of any negative effect of market displacement, and do little to ameliorate the efficacy otherwise.  In other words, their effect in the market seems heavily weighted against successful investing.  It seems that they are akin to kiting checks into new accounts repeadedly to make money.  Why not stick to investing in bonds with keener and more transparent underwriting.  The &quot;old fashioned&quot; and presumably &quot;less creative&quot; products should always produce more stable markets, if regulated properly.

One of the key issues going forward is keeping the ratings agencies honest.  This means not allowing them to work for the product issuers, and &quot;back checking&quot; their rating processes regularly.

As far as Citi goes, they are in as much trouble as all the others who still horde toxic assets in the non-MtM portfolios.  It is now a race to the finish line.  Where the overall economy goes from here will determine if all, or any, win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I question the entire rationale behind the CDS.  But, if ratings matter normally, I believe that it requires a crystal ball to assess the risk of the CDS, since it&#8217;s entire viability seems to rely mostly on the condition of the market place, and other competing investments.  That is aside from the ratings issues with the securities involved in underpinning the CDS&#8217;s, which, if not rated properly, act as a multiplier of any negative effect of market displacement, and do little to ameliorate the efficacy otherwise.  In other words, their effect in the market seems heavily weighted against successful investing.  It seems that they are akin to kiting checks into new accounts repeadedly to make money.  Why not stick to investing in bonds with keener and more transparent underwriting.  The &#8220;old fashioned&#8221; and presumably &#8220;less creative&#8221; products should always produce more stable markets, if regulated properly.</p>
<p>One of the key issues going forward is keeping the ratings agencies honest.  This means not allowing them to work for the product issuers, and &#8220;back checking&#8221; their rating processes regularly.</p>
<p>As far as Citi goes, they are in as much trouble as all the others who still horde toxic assets in the non-MtM portfolios.  It is now a race to the finish line.  Where the overall economy goes from here will determine if all, or any, win.</p>
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		<title>By: Bond Girl</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18581</link>
		<dc:creator>Bond Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18581</guid>
		<description>This all goes back to the idea that ratings are just opinions, not financial advice or appraisals.

If you look at a ratings report where a rating agency justifies the rating it has given, it will say as much.  For example, here is the disclaimer from a random S&amp;P Ratings Services report on my desk: &quot;The credit ratings and observations contained herein are solely statements of opinion and not statements of fact or recommendations to purchase, hold, or sell any securities or make any other investment decisions.  Accordingly, any user of information contained herein should not rely on any credit rating or other opinion contained herein in making any investment decision ... Ratings Services receives compensation for its ratings.  Such compensation is normally paid either by the issuers of such securities or third parties participating in marketing the securities.&quot;

The problem is, even if the rating agencies view their &quot;opinions&quot; that way, others have given the ratings a special status (e.g., policymakers in using ratings as a proxy for creditworthiness in defining eligible investments in regulations or market participants when they are selling a specific security to an investor).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all goes back to the idea that ratings are just opinions, not financial advice or appraisals.</p>
<p>If you look at a ratings report where a rating agency justifies the rating it has given, it will say as much.  For example, here is the disclaimer from a random S&amp;P Ratings Services report on my desk: &#8220;The credit ratings and observations contained herein are solely statements of opinion and not statements of fact or recommendations to purchase, hold, or sell any securities or make any other investment decisions.  Accordingly, any user of information contained herein should not rely on any credit rating or other opinion contained herein in making any investment decision &#8230; Ratings Services receives compensation for its ratings.  Such compensation is normally paid either by the issuers of such securities or third parties participating in marketing the securities.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is, even if the rating agencies view their &#8220;opinions&#8221; that way, others have given the ratings a special status (e.g., policymakers in using ratings as a proxy for creditworthiness in defining eligible investments in regulations or market participants when they are selling a specific security to an investor).</p>
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		<title>By: q</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/24/it-takes-a-citi/#comment-18575</link>
		<dc:creator>q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4169#comment-18575</guid>
		<description>anne, two things:

first, in terms of the TARP money, many of the banks did not want it.  treasury secretary paulson decided that everyone should get them because he didn&#039;t want to tell the world which banks the treasury thought were in terrible shape.  in retrospect this strategy didn&#039;t work all that well anyway as everyone &quot;knew&quot; the answer anyway.

in addition, many of the banks would have had serious liquidity difficulties last year because they had trouble raising money (ie issuing bonds) from private investors.  so they were allowed to raise these funds with FDIC support -- essentially with a government guarantee.  i don&#039;t know the terms of this, whether the banks are paying an insurance premium for this guarantee or not.

and yes, the banks are paying interest on the money (i think 6%) and this is one reason they want to pay it back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anne, two things:</p>
<p>first, in terms of the TARP money, many of the banks did not want it.  treasury secretary paulson decided that everyone should get them because he didn&#8217;t want to tell the world which banks the treasury thought were in terrible shape.  in retrospect this strategy didn&#8217;t work all that well anyway as everyone &#8220;knew&#8221; the answer anyway.</p>
<p>in addition, many of the banks would have had serious liquidity difficulties last year because they had trouble raising money (ie issuing bonds) from private investors.  so they were allowed to raise these funds with FDIC support &#8212; essentially with a government guarantee.  i don&#8217;t know the terms of this, whether the banks are paying an insurance premium for this guarantee or not.</p>
<p>and yes, the banks are paying interest on the money (i think 6%) and this is one reason they want to pay it back.</p>
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