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	<title>Comments on: Innovation, Regulation, and Credit Cards</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: The Finest of the Flavors &#171; The Baseline Scenario</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-19513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Finest of the Flavors &#171; The Baseline Scenario]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-19513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] objections. This is also similar to Adam Levitin&#8217;s position on credit cards, which I wrote about a while [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] objections. This is also similar to Adam Levitin&#8217;s position on credit cards, which I wrote about a while [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HG</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What made me laugh (a bit cynically) is that business school students everywhere study an HBS case:  Capital One--and its all about credit card innovation--and in fact, the case is used to demonstrate how innovation and experimentation with customers is good.  It will be interesting to see the next revision of this case--as these CapOne guys could very well be characterized as part of the evil empire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What made me laugh (a bit cynically) is that business school students everywhere study an HBS case:  Capital One&#8211;and its all about credit card innovation&#8211;and in fact, the case is used to demonstrate how innovation and experimentation with customers is good.  It will be interesting to see the next revision of this case&#8211;as these CapOne guys could very well be characterized as part of the evil empire.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The real product innovation has been in the payment system with the introduction of the debt card and the pre-pay card.  I now have three options -- pre-pay, pay now (debit) or pay in the future (credit).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real product innovation has been in the payment system with the introduction of the debt card and the pre-pay card.  I now have three options &#8212; pre-pay, pay now (debit) or pay in the future (credit).</p>
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		<title>By: wcw</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wcw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What Fair Isaac does is pretty lunatic in some cases.  While hardly rich, my experience has been very similar.  I currently have &quot;worse&quot; credit that I did as a penniless 18-year-old college student, because I have zero debt and don&#039;t use my cards.  That my income is top-decile and that I have a year or two of after-tax salary in cash equivalents doesn&#039;t interest, I guess.

The major piece of regulation I want to see is turning credit reporting and scoring into regulated utilities.  Right now, I want to fire my primary card provider for incompetence, but dare not, lest my FICO dip even lower.

Sad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Fair Isaac does is pretty lunatic in some cases.  While hardly rich, my experience has been very similar.  I currently have &#8220;worse&#8221; credit that I did as a penniless 18-year-old college student, because I have zero debt and don&#8217;t use my cards.  That my income is top-decile and that I have a year or two of after-tax salary in cash equivalents doesn&#8217;t interest, I guess.</p>
<p>The major piece of regulation I want to see is turning credit reporting and scoring into regulated utilities.  Right now, I want to fire my primary card provider for incompetence, but dare not, lest my FICO dip even lower.</p>
<p>Sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Relating to what I just said above, I should say, when I said you need a credit card to buy a car or house, I didn&#039;t mean to use it specifically for that, I mean because you need the credit card to build up your credit rating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relating to what I just said above, I should say, when I said you need a credit card to buy a car or house, I didn&#8217;t mean to use it specifically for that, I mean because you need the credit card to build up your credit rating.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bayard,  I&#039;m 35 and I never got a credit card. I had many opportunities when I was at University (I was getting 1 offer very other day in the old &quot;snail mail&quot;).  I also could have gotten one after I got in the real work a day world.   I know Ross Perot talked about the evils of debt when he ran for president.  I lived in China for some time and saving money is something Chinese seem to understand quite easily.  We can see this also in the way their government owns a lot of U.S. Treasuries now.  I can&#039;t say that I live a dream life now, but it&#039;s a nice feeling to get up in the morning knowing you don&#039;t owe $1 to anyone.  It&#039;s a really great &quot;peace of mind&quot;.  The only problem where you really need to get a credit card is buying a car or house.  But just get ONE credit card (if you have a female in your life, tell her to get her own credit card, with only her name on it, TELL HER YOU&#039;RE A STRONG BELIEVER IN EQUALITY OF THE SEXES). ALWAYS pay the balance at the end of the month.  Federal Credit Unions are a good place to get a credit card account. I guess easier said than done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bayard,  I&#8217;m 35 and I never got a credit card. I had many opportunities when I was at University (I was getting 1 offer very other day in the old &#8220;snail mail&#8221;).  I also could have gotten one after I got in the real work a day world.   I know Ross Perot talked about the evils of debt when he ran for president.  I lived in China for some time and saving money is something Chinese seem to understand quite easily.  We can see this also in the way their government owns a lot of U.S. Treasuries now.  I can&#8217;t say that I live a dream life now, but it&#8217;s a nice feeling to get up in the morning knowing you don&#8217;t owe $1 to anyone.  It&#8217;s a really great &#8220;peace of mind&#8221;.  The only problem where you really need to get a credit card is buying a car or house.  But just get ONE credit card (if you have a female in your life, tell her to get her own credit card, with only her name on it, TELL HER YOU&#8217;RE A STRONG BELIEVER IN EQUALITY OF THE SEXES). ALWAYS pay the balance at the end of the month.  Federal Credit Unions are a good place to get a credit card account. I guess easier said than done.</p>
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		<title>By: q</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[q]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[let me clarify.

i can see how reasonable and reasonably cautious people can get ripped off by credit card terms that are not transparent or that involve large rate changes.

i can see a role for government in enforcing transparency certainly and for ensuring (to some extent, because it&#039;s not totally possible) that the terms are not set up to hit someone very hard while they are going through unanticipatable difficulties.

but i don&#039;t see a role for government in encouraging people to pay back debt or to get out of debt.  it is reasonable for people and businesses to carry debt over a long period of time.  people can make that choice, and i don&#039;t think the government needs to have a stance on that one way or another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>let me clarify.</p>
<p>i can see how reasonable and reasonably cautious people can get ripped off by credit card terms that are not transparent or that involve large rate changes.</p>
<p>i can see a role for government in enforcing transparency certainly and for ensuring (to some extent, because it&#8217;s not totally possible) that the terms are not set up to hit someone very hard while they are going through unanticipatable difficulties.</p>
<p>but i don&#8217;t see a role for government in encouraging people to pay back debt or to get out of debt.  it is reasonable for people and businesses to carry debt over a long period of time.  people can make that choice, and i don&#8217;t think the government needs to have a stance on that one way or another.</p>
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		<title>By: Brant</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are many issues here; however, if there is to be new regulation, then one simple rule will make it easier for busy consumers to avoid late fees and interest:  Require all businesses to submit their demands for payment on the same date - or at least the same date for last names beginning with a particular letter, or some such.  I use my credit cards as charge cards, paying off the balance each month.  However, about once every two years I miss a payment - either on a credit card or a PG&amp;E bill or some such.  I suspect I&#039;m not alone in having this problem.  My demands for payment dribble in over the month, creating an unneeded distribution of a task (bill payment) across the month and making it easy to loose track of a payment.  If they all arrived on the same day, I would pay all of them at the same time and none would be missed.  Of course, that would deny the card companies a source of income, so I would expect that they would resist such a rule.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many issues here; however, if there is to be new regulation, then one simple rule will make it easier for busy consumers to avoid late fees and interest:  Require all businesses to submit their demands for payment on the same date &#8211; or at least the same date for last names beginning with a particular letter, or some such.  I use my credit cards as charge cards, paying off the balance each month.  However, about once every two years I miss a payment &#8211; either on a credit card or a PG&amp;E bill or some such.  I suspect I&#8217;m not alone in having this problem.  My demands for payment dribble in over the month, creating an unneeded distribution of a task (bill payment) across the month and making it easy to loose track of a payment.  If they all arrived on the same day, I would pay all of them at the same time and none would be missed.  Of course, that would deny the card companies a source of income, so I would expect that they would resist such a rule.</p>
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		<title>By: q</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[q]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 00:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[no offense, but if people just make the minimum payment without thinking about the consequences, they aren&#039;t thinking.  if that is the case the government can make whatever rules it wants and someone will find a way to take advantage of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no offense, but if people just make the minimum payment without thinking about the consequences, they aren&#8217;t thinking.  if that is the case the government can make whatever rules it wants and someone will find a way to take advantage of them.</p>
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		<title>By: janjanjan</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janjanjan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My strong belief is that nobody who carries a balance on a card that they continue to use could possibly understand the costs involved.  How can it make sense to buy food with a credit card and immediately incur 18%+ additional extra cost, unless you don&#039;t understand that is what you are doing.  I can understand carrying a balance after buying something you want today--the refrigerator example--if you immediately stop using that card.  If next month you buy a tank of gas with that same card, you&#039;re adding 18% cost to the price of that gas and ensuring that you won&#039;t actually pay for that gas for 10-15 years.  I know relatively intelligent people who carry balances on their cards which they continue to use.  When I&#039;ve had this discussion with them, they inevitably didn&#039;t realize what they were actually doing.

So, traditional transparency won&#039;t work.  Just as you won&#039;t improve eating habits by posting a standardized label on carrot cake saying that a portion has 1100 calories unless you&#039;ve also trained your eater to realize that most of us can&#039;t afford to eat even 2000 calories daily.  

If you&#039;ve ever known somebody who&#039;s never dieted, you know that this individual often has no idea of what a normal calorie or fat allowance should look like.  In order to be effective, labels must be combined with training.  

When did you last see a public service announcement describing the actual cost of 18% or 28% interest on routine purchases made with a revolving charge?  You see two types of communication--that aimed at the relatively sophisticated consumer who probably never engages in self-destructive financial behavior, and angry ranting aimed at less knowledgeable consumers who don&#039;t understand the basics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My strong belief is that nobody who carries a balance on a card that they continue to use could possibly understand the costs involved.  How can it make sense to buy food with a credit card and immediately incur 18%+ additional extra cost, unless you don&#8217;t understand that is what you are doing.  I can understand carrying a balance after buying something you want today&#8211;the refrigerator example&#8211;if you immediately stop using that card.  If next month you buy a tank of gas with that same card, you&#8217;re adding 18% cost to the price of that gas and ensuring that you won&#8217;t actually pay for that gas for 10-15 years.  I know relatively intelligent people who carry balances on their cards which they continue to use.  When I&#8217;ve had this discussion with them, they inevitably didn&#8217;t realize what they were actually doing.</p>
<p>So, traditional transparency won&#8217;t work.  Just as you won&#8217;t improve eating habits by posting a standardized label on carrot cake saying that a portion has 1100 calories unless you&#8217;ve also trained your eater to realize that most of us can&#8217;t afford to eat even 2000 calories daily.  </p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever known somebody who&#8217;s never dieted, you know that this individual often has no idea of what a normal calorie or fat allowance should look like.  In order to be effective, labels must be combined with training.  </p>
<p>When did you last see a public service announcement describing the actual cost of 18% or 28% interest on routine purchases made with a revolving charge?  You see two types of communication&#8211;that aimed at the relatively sophisticated consumer who probably never engages in self-destructive financial behavior, and angry ranting aimed at less knowledgeable consumers who don&#8217;t understand the basics.</p>
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		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Min]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[q: &quot;i don’t get it. it wouldn’t work.

&quot;if people had two credit cards they can get around minimum payments by paying them off with each other. or they would additional purchases on their credit card to conserve cash to pay their higher minimum balance.&quot;

Yes, people can get around it, and people already do what you say. That does not mean that the proposal would not work.

A lot of people simply make the minimum payment, unless things are such that they feel that they can pay more. If the minimum goes up, most of them will continue to do the same thing. Others may charge more in order to have the cash to make higher payments, and either continue in that vein or take measures to reduce their balances. 

People will adapt to higher minimum payments. And a good bit of that adaptation will be better financial discipline. The fact that some people will increase their debt load, and that some of them will do so indefinitely, does not mean that &quot;it will not work&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>q: &#8220;i don’t get it. it wouldn’t work.</p>
<p>&#8220;if people had two credit cards they can get around minimum payments by paying them off with each other. or they would additional purchases on their credit card to conserve cash to pay their higher minimum balance.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, people can get around it, and people already do what you say. That does not mean that the proposal would not work.</p>
<p>A lot of people simply make the minimum payment, unless things are such that they feel that they can pay more. If the minimum goes up, most of them will continue to do the same thing. Others may charge more in order to have the cash to make higher payments, and either continue in that vein or take measures to reduce their balances. </p>
<p>People will adapt to higher minimum payments. And a good bit of that adaptation will be better financial discipline. The fact that some people will increase their debt load, and that some of them will do so indefinitely, does not mean that &#8220;it will not work&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: q</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[q]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i don&#039;t get it.  it wouldn&#039;t work.  

if people had two credit cards they can get around minimum payments by paying them off with each other.  or they would additional purchases on their credit card to conserve cash to pay their higher minimum balance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t get it.  it wouldn&#8217;t work.  </p>
<p>if people had two credit cards they can get around minimum payments by paying them off with each other.  or they would additional purchases on their credit card to conserve cash to pay their higher minimum balance.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, have often considered this after a conversation I had with a former client who worked with senior management at one of the Big Three credit reporting bureaus. This manager revealed that after initially wanting to compete with FICO, they decided it was more profitable to position their services, paid for my lenders, as collaborative with FICO.  They also routinely refer to their means of collecting and analyzing credit data as a Trade Secret, as does FICO, so that they will not have to bear scrutiny for their scoring.  As you suggest, this manager told me that they effectively punish consumers for smart credit management decisions such as canceling higher rated cards in favor of other cards or no cards.  In my opinion, they do not measure credit-worthiness as much as they measure profitability potential for lenders, as demonstrated by this factor.  How else to explain the onslaught of credit card offers in 2003-2007 specifically targeted to poor FICO score consumers?  More profit potential, as identified by FICO, is my take.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, have often considered this after a conversation I had with a former client who worked with senior management at one of the Big Three credit reporting bureaus. This manager revealed that after initially wanting to compete with FICO, they decided it was more profitable to position their services, paid for my lenders, as collaborative with FICO.  They also routinely refer to their means of collecting and analyzing credit data as a Trade Secret, as does FICO, so that they will not have to bear scrutiny for their scoring.  As you suggest, this manager told me that they effectively punish consumers for smart credit management decisions such as canceling higher rated cards in favor of other cards or no cards.  In my opinion, they do not measure credit-worthiness as much as they measure profitability potential for lenders, as demonstrated by this factor.  How else to explain the onslaught of credit card offers in 2003-2007 specifically targeted to poor FICO score consumers?  More profit potential, as identified by FICO, is my take.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bayard: No credit cards? That&#039;s communism!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bayard: No credit cards? That&#8217;s communism!</p>
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		<title>By: Ted K</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/06/10/innovation-regulation-credit-cards/#comment-17174</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=4019#comment-17174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Killian, I like your idea very very much.  It&#039;s ingenious, easy to apply, understandable to the &quot;average Joe&quot;, beneficial to the country in down times, and could save the people out there whose very nature is inclined to be a debtor all of their lives. In fact, it&#039;s so ingenious that I PREDICT THIS IDEA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE OF EVER BECOMING LAW AND EVEN LESSER CHANCE OF COMING UP FOR A VOTE.  Because as we all know, the latest stunt of Congressmen who don&#039;t want to enact good laws, is to make certain they&#039;re never ON RECORD as having voted against those good laws.  How to avoid being ON RECORD as having voted against a good law??? Make certain it NEVER comes up for a vote (put it last on the agenda pile).  If voters or journalists ask why it wasn&#039;t voted on, just shrug your shoulders and say &quot;Well,  we had a lot on our plate this legislative term, and I guess it got shoved to the bottom of the pile.&quot;  Then go eat a nice steak dinner with the Bank company which owns the credit card business, and ask him what bag of goodies he&#039;s going to give you this year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Killian, I like your idea very very much.  It&#8217;s ingenious, easy to apply, understandable to the &#8220;average Joe&#8221;, beneficial to the country in down times, and could save the people out there whose very nature is inclined to be a debtor all of their lives. In fact, it&#8217;s so ingenious that I PREDICT THIS IDEA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE OF EVER BECOMING LAW AND EVEN LESSER CHANCE OF COMING UP FOR A VOTE.  Because as we all know, the latest stunt of Congressmen who don&#8217;t want to enact good laws, is to make certain they&#8217;re never ON RECORD as having voted against those good laws.  How to avoid being ON RECORD as having voted against a good law??? Make certain it NEVER comes up for a vote (put it last on the agenda pile).  If voters or journalists ask why it wasn&#8217;t voted on, just shrug your shoulders and say &#8220;Well,  we had a lot on our plate this legislative term, and I guess it got shoved to the bottom of the pile.&#8221;  Then go eat a nice steak dinner with the Bank company which owns the credit card business, and ask him what bag of goodies he&#8217;s going to give you this year.</p>
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