<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Pollution, Race, and Poverty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 14:01:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Preternatural</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Preternatural]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 21:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Highgamma, for older communities and infrastructure you&#039;d be increasingly correct perhaps. It requireth not rocket science to see that its all about the zoning. Are wealthier communities zoned the same as poorer communities? Zoning changes all the time and is one of the main reasons local politicians and real estate cats go to jail. Factories that need a lot of land need the land to be cheap. Sure maybe they could put the factory or plant on the outskirts of town, but then will have to bear travel cost. What to do what to do what to do?! So what do we say when the factory is the new neighbor to an existing minority community. Did they set out to be racist, to poison rivers and streams and create six legged three eyed frogs? Honestly, were they trying to kill the American economy? For the folks saying they didn&#039;t mean to be racist and the report doesn&#039;t cite racism. I agree. You&#039;re right. I don&#039;t think they  set out to take your 401K or bankrupt your company either. They didn&#039;t mention you by name or say we&#039;re going to run Chrysler in the ground either. Certainly no one on Wall Street said let&#039;s put millions of people out of work. Funny how that works: when its racism they&#039;re supposed to say it, but with everything else were free to draw whatever correlations we want? 

We&#039;re talking about pollution and minorities and I have no doubts about the findings of the report in question. Its sinister and evil and anything else foul you might wish to call it as the people who are most affected by this have the least resources to deal with the resulting health problems. I recently viewed a PBS special on three Native American youths who were looking at their tribe, some stolen land as well as pollution. A startling revelation was that nearly 90+ percent of the country&#039;s refineries are near or on Native American land. For the folks saying this isn&#039;t racist I only ask how many treaties have we broken with the Native Americans. You know why, because we were always intentionally giving them land that we thought was worthless. When we found out there was something of value about the land, you got yet another broken treaty. Of import is the fact that there was a conscious decision that Native Americans not have valuable land, even if their previous land was in fact valuable. If they could consciously assign land that was intended to be valueless, then they could also intentionally say, &#039;ah just a bunch of indians, go ahead and put the nuclear plant there.&#039;

As with the Native Americans, those responsible for zoning apparently are aware enough of those potentially affected to consistently not zone wealthier neighborhoods for hazardous materials and instead zone areas near or within minority/poor communities. How could such patterns exist if there were not some conscious deliberation occurring? I believe that the only way to have true justice is to seek it on everyone&#039;s behalf. If we had made more effort to see that Native Americans  not be polluted, we all would have benefited. If we had worked more diligently to see that there be not even the appearance that was okay to pollute minorities of any race or creed, we all would have benefitted. The US bound itself to Capitalism. Capitalism doesn&#039;t ask about good for environment or responsible stewardship or even public trust and welfare. There are so many pharmaceuticals in the water in Los Angeles, soon who&#039;ll need a prescription? In that equation wealthier people have access to bottled water and other technologies. Still, with the states fighting over an ever decreasing water supply here in the west, it might not matter much eventually because no matter who they set out to target we will all be affected. 25 states have rocket fuel in the water and its in the food supply because its the same water for everyone, plants and livestock included. Everyone&#039;s glaciers are melting and in the US food supply, produce today isn&#039;t as nutritious as previous generations because the chemicals used to force the land to  produce abundantly can&#039;t fake vitamins and minerals that have been depleted and of course these are everyone&#039;s vegetables. In the end it won&#039;t matter if they set out to be racist or not, when you don&#039;t protect everyone you don&#039;t protect anyone. When its okay to have protected classes and intentionally not protect others or just not to the same extent, we are seeing that, as the Earth is telling us, no one is protected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Highgamma, for older communities and infrastructure you&#8217;d be increasingly correct perhaps. It requireth not rocket science to see that its all about the zoning. Are wealthier communities zoned the same as poorer communities? Zoning changes all the time and is one of the main reasons local politicians and real estate cats go to jail. Factories that need a lot of land need the land to be cheap. Sure maybe they could put the factory or plant on the outskirts of town, but then will have to bear travel cost. What to do what to do what to do?! So what do we say when the factory is the new neighbor to an existing minority community. Did they set out to be racist, to poison rivers and streams and create six legged three eyed frogs? Honestly, were they trying to kill the American economy? For the folks saying they didn&#8217;t mean to be racist and the report doesn&#8217;t cite racism. I agree. You&#8217;re right. I don&#8217;t think they  set out to take your 401K or bankrupt your company either. They didn&#8217;t mention you by name or say we&#8217;re going to run Chrysler in the ground either. Certainly no one on Wall Street said let&#8217;s put millions of people out of work. Funny how that works: when its racism they&#8217;re supposed to say it, but with everything else were free to draw whatever correlations we want? </p>
<p>We&#8217;re talking about pollution and minorities and I have no doubts about the findings of the report in question. Its sinister and evil and anything else foul you might wish to call it as the people who are most affected by this have the least resources to deal with the resulting health problems. I recently viewed a PBS special on three Native American youths who were looking at their tribe, some stolen land as well as pollution. A startling revelation was that nearly 90+ percent of the country&#8217;s refineries are near or on Native American land. For the folks saying this isn&#8217;t racist I only ask how many treaties have we broken with the Native Americans. You know why, because we were always intentionally giving them land that we thought was worthless. When we found out there was something of value about the land, you got yet another broken treaty. Of import is the fact that there was a conscious decision that Native Americans not have valuable land, even if their previous land was in fact valuable. If they could consciously assign land that was intended to be valueless, then they could also intentionally say, &#8216;ah just a bunch of indians, go ahead and put the nuclear plant there.&#8217;</p>
<p>As with the Native Americans, those responsible for zoning apparently are aware enough of those potentially affected to consistently not zone wealthier neighborhoods for hazardous materials and instead zone areas near or within minority/poor communities. How could such patterns exist if there were not some conscious deliberation occurring? I believe that the only way to have true justice is to seek it on everyone&#8217;s behalf. If we had made more effort to see that Native Americans  not be polluted, we all would have benefited. If we had worked more diligently to see that there be not even the appearance that was okay to pollute minorities of any race or creed, we all would have benefitted. The US bound itself to Capitalism. Capitalism doesn&#8217;t ask about good for environment or responsible stewardship or even public trust and welfare. There are so many pharmaceuticals in the water in Los Angeles, soon who&#8217;ll need a prescription? In that equation wealthier people have access to bottled water and other technologies. Still, with the states fighting over an ever decreasing water supply here in the west, it might not matter much eventually because no matter who they set out to target we will all be affected. 25 states have rocket fuel in the water and its in the food supply because its the same water for everyone, plants and livestock included. Everyone&#8217;s glaciers are melting and in the US food supply, produce today isn&#8217;t as nutritious as previous generations because the chemicals used to force the land to  produce abundantly can&#8217;t fake vitamins and minerals that have been depleted and of course these are everyone&#8217;s vegetables. In the end it won&#8217;t matter if they set out to be racist or not, when you don&#8217;t protect everyone you don&#8217;t protect anyone. When its okay to have protected classes and intentionally not protect others or just not to the same extent, we are seeing that, as the Earth is telling us, no one is protected.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13596</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From my days in sociology (years ago), FWIR, it wasn&#039;t Either/Or.  Factorys needed to be built, and in areas where there was a population, the people with the least amount of political pull (the poor) had the dirtiest factories put by them, which then drove down the value of their property and increased the &quot;cost&quot; of living (through medical care and crime due to increased poverty... etc) decreasing their expendable income further.  

However, in areas where there is open space, the heavy polluters could move away from people, but then because the property value around them decreased, they attracted lower income folks who couldn&#039;t afford to live in the nicer areas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my days in sociology (years ago), FWIR, it wasn&#8217;t Either/Or.  Factorys needed to be built, and in areas where there was a population, the people with the least amount of political pull (the poor) had the dirtiest factories put by them, which then drove down the value of their property and increased the &#8220;cost&#8221; of living (through medical care and crime due to increased poverty&#8230; etc) decreasing their expendable income further.  </p>
<p>However, in areas where there is open space, the heavy polluters could move away from people, but then because the property value around them decreased, they attracted lower income folks who couldn&#8217;t afford to live in the nicer areas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just because something doesn&#039;t cost immediate capital, it can still have an affect on the &quot;cost&quot; of doing business, which i believe is the larger point being made.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because something doesn&#8217;t cost immediate capital, it can still have an affect on the &#8220;cost&#8221; of doing business, which i believe is the larger point being made.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is this a joke?  I can think of no better way to reduce the first world economies to third world economies in very short order.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this a joke?  I can think of no better way to reduce the first world economies to third world economies in very short order.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EH</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A word of caution - slavery seemed to make a lot sense economically at the time to people in power.  

We can rationalize why some should suffer more than others, but at some point we should focus on meeting our needs without damaging the health of non-consumers and the environment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A word of caution &#8211; slavery seemed to make a lot sense economically at the time to people in power.  </p>
<p>We can rationalize why some should suffer more than others, but at some point we should focus on meeting our needs without damaging the health of non-consumers and the environment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EKCP</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EKCP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 04:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, the first sentence of your post and the last represent the very divide.  The two are almost mutually exclusive.  Free-market capitalism in its purist form would not, could not, include socially conscious expenditures at the expense of shareholders.  Until the U.S. feels more comfortable, culturally, with adopting more socially conscious (read, Socialist) measures, we may never bridge the divide.  I am an American married to a Brit and spend a LOT of time on the other side of the pond.  While the UK is hardly the only or best model of a society with a social net, I am always amazed at how much my fellow countrymen recoil at the idea of socialized-anything at the expense of profits.  It&#039;s everyman for himself here, but we don&#039;t seem to have the foresight to see we all pay in the end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, the first sentence of your post and the last represent the very divide.  The two are almost mutually exclusive.  Free-market capitalism in its purist form would not, could not, include socially conscious expenditures at the expense of shareholders.  Until the U.S. feels more comfortable, culturally, with adopting more socially conscious (read, Socialist) measures, we may never bridge the divide.  I am an American married to a Brit and spend a LOT of time on the other side of the pond.  While the UK is hardly the only or best model of a society with a social net, I am always amazed at how much my fellow countrymen recoil at the idea of socialized-anything at the expense of profits.  It&#8217;s everyman for himself here, but we don&#8217;t seem to have the foresight to see we all pay in the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 21:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Corporations aren&#039;t targeting anyone.  The underlying reality is that powerplants, factories, oil refineries, mines, etc. are built because they are judged to be socially useful - even with imposed undesirable externalities like pollution.  Increased prosperity allows resources for avoiding the undesirable externalities.  It makes less sense for poor people to invest their limited resources in avoiding undesirable externalities that can be tolerated.  A just society will be careful to regulate closely those externalities that may be tolerable on a daily basis, but destroy people&#039;s health so slowly as to be unnoticeable until it is too late.  I lived near a chocolate factory for a year.  It did not smell as good as you might think.  But I save a lot on rent and didn&#039;t get ill.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corporations aren&#8217;t targeting anyone.  The underlying reality is that powerplants, factories, oil refineries, mines, etc. are built because they are judged to be socially useful &#8211; even with imposed undesirable externalities like pollution.  Increased prosperity allows resources for avoiding the undesirable externalities.  It makes less sense for poor people to invest their limited resources in avoiding undesirable externalities that can be tolerated.  A just society will be careful to regulate closely those externalities that may be tolerable on a daily basis, but destroy people&#8217;s health so slowly as to be unnoticeable until it is too late.  I lived near a chocolate factory for a year.  It did not smell as good as you might think.  But I save a lot on rent and didn&#8217;t get ill.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uncle Billy Vs. Mont Pelerin</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uncle Billy Vs. Mont Pelerin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 21:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My guess is that they consider the environmental crises to be an inseparable part of the other crises.  We have one huge global crisis that creates micro-crises in a very unfair way.  It&#039;s possible that these fellows are &quot;enlightened globalists,&quot; or have been fooled into thinking they are, or are pretending to be.  Only their hairdresser knows for sure.  Based on Boone&#039;s association with Brunswick-UBS in Moscow, Simon&#039;s IMF background, and Kwak&#039;s McKinsey-Insurance Industry-Yale flavor -- I&#039;m guessing they&#039;re bought and paid for and they know it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that they consider the environmental crises to be an inseparable part of the other crises.  We have one huge global crisis that creates micro-crises in a very unfair way.  It&#8217;s possible that these fellows are &#8220;enlightened globalists,&#8221; or have been fooled into thinking they are, or are pretending to be.  Only their hairdresser knows for sure.  Based on Boone&#8217;s association with Brunswick-UBS in Moscow, Simon&#8217;s IMF background, and Kwak&#8217;s McKinsey-Insurance Industry-Yale flavor &#8212; I&#8217;m guessing they&#8217;re bought and paid for and they know it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uncle Billy Vs. Mont Pelerin</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uncle Billy Vs. Mont Pelerin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 21:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly.

Was reminded as well of the e-waste being shipped off to mainland China where villagers have no way to know what is poisoning them, and no one but the stray western reporter to let them know.

Can you imagine what&#039;s being dumped in Africa??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>Was reminded as well of the e-waste being shipped off to mainland China where villagers have no way to know what is poisoning them, and no one but the stray western reporter to let them know.</p>
<p>Can you imagine what&#8217;s being dumped in Africa??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: uber_snotling</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[uber_snotling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 20:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[-ATCooper,

Reductions since the 70s are even larger than the reductions since the 80s.  And the report mentioned in the original post is on emissions of air pollution.  

And the aggregate emissions of the six common pollutants and their precursors since the 70s are here.

http://www.epa.gov/air/airtrends/images/comparison70.jpg

-Full disclosure; I helped to make the linked graphic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-ATCooper,</p>
<p>Reductions since the 70s are even larger than the reductions since the 80s.  And the report mentioned in the original post is on emissions of air pollution.  </p>
<p>And the aggregate emissions of the six common pollutants and their precursors since the 70s are here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.epa.gov/air/airtrends/images/comparison70.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.epa.gov/air/airtrends/images/comparison70.jpg</a></p>
<p>-Full disclosure; I helped to make the linked graphic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 19:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James, 
I do think this is an important issue. Since this is new topic, more information might have especially helped. Seems like your post just touches the surface. Are you planning to follow this up with additional data and thinking? 

It does seem that most of those who&#039;ve commented recognize that we do no live in &quot;free market capitalism.&quot; I think your final sentence about the question of &quot;how much our society wants to round off the harsh edges of the free market&quot; is framed well. It&#039;s a matter of degree, when, where, how, etc., rather than whether we round off those harsh edges.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,<br />
I do think this is an important issue. Since this is new topic, more information might have especially helped. Seems like your post just touches the surface. Are you planning to follow this up with additional data and thinking? </p>
<p>It does seem that most of those who&#8217;ve commented recognize that we do no live in &#8220;free market capitalism.&#8221; I think your final sentence about the question of &#8220;how much our society wants to round off the harsh edges of the free market&#8221; is framed well. It&#8217;s a matter of degree, when, where, how, etc., rather than whether we round off those harsh edges.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neville</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neville]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As the discussion in the comments above makes clear, this post seems very superficial because it leaves all the important questions unexamined. Consequently it comes across as a postcard-level piece of &#039;sophomoric socialism&#039;.

Just to raise one issue of my own, what about the incentives impact of such an inquisitorial approach to the activities of individual companies? If this sort of calculus were to rule, then most companies could quite rationally avoid investing in areas where minorities live altogether. I guess that&#039;s an outcome which might suit those who believe that minority issues are the property of the collective, and only government can ever get involved in them while keeping its hands clean, but that reflects a set of assumptions which deserve to be argued rationally instead of just assumed.

Love your stuff, when it&#039;s on topic. Yes, I know it&#039;s your blog, but much of the readership you are interested in will not be interested in following you far down this path.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the discussion in the comments above makes clear, this post seems very superficial because it leaves all the important questions unexamined. Consequently it comes across as a postcard-level piece of &#8216;sophomoric socialism&#8217;.</p>
<p>Just to raise one issue of my own, what about the incentives impact of such an inquisitorial approach to the activities of individual companies? If this sort of calculus were to rule, then most companies could quite rationally avoid investing in areas where minorities live altogether. I guess that&#8217;s an outcome which might suit those who believe that minority issues are the property of the collective, and only government can ever get involved in them while keeping its hands clean, but that reflects a set of assumptions which deserve to be argued rationally instead of just assumed.</p>
<p>Love your stuff, when it&#8217;s on topic. Yes, I know it&#8217;s your blog, but much of the readership you are interested in will not be interested in following you far down this path.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jhm</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jhm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 15:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There seems to be quite a bit of denial when it comes to the effects of preferential treatment of governmental programs.  Just for one example, redlining in combination with the GI bill, not only drove prices down for those denied access, but drove up prices for those allowed to live in the &quot;good&quot; neighborhoods.

http://www.pbs.org/race/006_WhereRaceLives/006_01-unclesam.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be quite a bit of denial when it comes to the effects of preferential treatment of governmental programs.  Just for one example, redlining in combination with the GI bill, not only drove prices down for those denied access, but drove up prices for those allowed to live in the &#8220;good&#8221; neighborhoods.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/race/006_WhereRaceLives/006_01-unclesam.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/race/006_WhereRaceLives/006_01-unclesam.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Fahrner</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Fahrner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 15:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with AJ that the causation may be backwards, but in the end the net result is the same so perhaps it doesn&#039;t matter.

Ultimately the problem though is that the pollution exists at all. While it certainly is unfair who is getting the short end of the stick, the fact that anyone gets the short end is the real problem.

It seems to me we play a sort of game with pollution where we try to move it, or trade it, or tax it or whatever. We do this all the while where solutions, albeit not free, exist to eliminate it. Instead of playing &quot;whack-a-mole&quot; with the pollution, maybe it&#039;s time to just straight out regulate it?

Of course that not politically tenable, which of course is funny because it has popular support (in general it&#039;s funny how much is not &quot;politically tenable&quot; despite overwhelming popular support - perhaps that says something about our system of government?).

Unfortunately even if we could solve it here, the pollution would probably be exported somewhere else where the system is weaker. In fact I would guess that&#039;s part of why everything has a &quot;Made in China&quot; sticker stamped on it.

Which would lead to my final argument - it&#039;s not really possible to have &quot;free trade&quot; with countries that are neither free, nor exercising reasonable standards in terms of environmental control or workers rights. &quot;free trade&quot; is just an illusion in those cases, because it isn&#039;t a level playing field.

Of course the conservative answer to that is to bring us down to their level, rather than to insist they be brought up to ours. Pathetic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with AJ that the causation may be backwards, but in the end the net result is the same so perhaps it doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>Ultimately the problem though is that the pollution exists at all. While it certainly is unfair who is getting the short end of the stick, the fact that anyone gets the short end is the real problem.</p>
<p>It seems to me we play a sort of game with pollution where we try to move it, or trade it, or tax it or whatever. We do this all the while where solutions, albeit not free, exist to eliminate it. Instead of playing &#8220;whack-a-mole&#8221; with the pollution, maybe it&#8217;s time to just straight out regulate it?</p>
<p>Of course that not politically tenable, which of course is funny because it has popular support (in general it&#8217;s funny how much is not &#8220;politically tenable&#8221; despite overwhelming popular support &#8211; perhaps that says something about our system of government?).</p>
<p>Unfortunately even if we could solve it here, the pollution would probably be exported somewhere else where the system is weaker. In fact I would guess that&#8217;s part of why everything has a &#8220;Made in China&#8221; sticker stamped on it.</p>
<p>Which would lead to my final argument &#8211; it&#8217;s not really possible to have &#8220;free trade&#8221; with countries that are neither free, nor exercising reasonable standards in terms of environmental control or workers rights. &#8220;free trade&#8221; is just an illusion in those cases, because it isn&#8217;t a level playing field.</p>
<p>Of course the conservative answer to that is to bring us down to their level, rather than to insist they be brought up to ours. Pathetic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2009/05/05/pollution-race-and-poverty/#comment-13179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 13:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=3548#comment-13179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To echo highgamma and Taunter, there is a key question of causation here.  James implies that polluters choose to locate in poor areas because poor people have less political power.  I think that gets the causation backwards, and that real estate around polluters is less desirable and therefore cheaper and populated by poorer people. I haven&#039;t read the linked paper.  Does it try to control for this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To echo highgamma and Taunter, there is a key question of causation here.  James implies that polluters choose to locate in poor areas because poor people have less political power.  I think that gets the causation backwards, and that real estate around polluters is less desirable and therefore cheaper and populated by poorer people. I haven&#8217;t read the linked paper.  Does it try to control for this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

