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	<title>Comments on: Causes: Maybe People Are Just Like That</title>
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	<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/</link>
	<description>What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it</description>
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		<title>By: RealTime Economic Issues Watch</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-2073</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RealTime Economic Issues Watch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-2073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] bubble was inflated by global capital flows, but bubbles can occur in a closed economy (as shown by experiments). The European financial bubble, including massive lending to Eastern Europe and Latin America, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] bubble was inflated by global capital flows, but bubbles can occur in a closed economy (as shown by experiments). The European financial bubble, including massive lending to Eastern Europe and Latin America, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Morton-Haworth</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Morton-Haworth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I commented above: “But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable”

Anonymous asks “.. mate what are you on about? bubbles have repeated throughout the last 500 years, this is just another” and so does mike “Geoffey what are you on about? Asset bubbles have repeated throughout history, this is just another. At the peak of the tulip bubble people were swapping their houses for flower bulbs.. there will be plenty more to come.”

OK, this is what I am on about. Of course there have been bubbles and there will be again. Sure people behave irrationally at times but merely to accept this is a counsel of despair. There are deep causes to the global economic crises and social psychology can aid economics, accounting and finance in helping us understand them, and the whole purpose of better understanding is to help us mitigate the risk of them happening again.

An accessible source of insight from this perspective is the excellent BBC series by Adam Curtis “The Century of the Self” , that you can download for free from the Internet Archive (www.archive.org search “century of the self”). If you missed it, watch it now. There are four programs of one-hour each. If you are only going to watch one, watch number four.

This last part describes how politicians took up “focus groups” and the consequences. It’s possible to argue that the global economic crisis is the result of governments’ indulgence of the view that everyone can be anything, do everything and have everything they want. Here is the conclusion to that series: 

“Fundamentally, here we have two different views of human nature and of democracy.

“You have the view that people are irrational, that they are bundles of unconscious emotion. That comes directly out of Freud, and businesses are able to respond to that. That is what they have honed their skills doing. That is what marketing is really all about. What are the symbols, the images, the music, and the words that will appeal to these unconscious feelings?

“Politics must be more than that. Politics and leadership are about engaging the public in a rational discussion and deliberation about what is best, and treating people with respect in terms of their rational abilities to debate what is best.”

Two things have happened since that series was produced. First were the moves to encourage personal indebtedness – to keep the “dangerous crowd” hard at work and therefore more docile – that have culminated in the global economic crisis. Second came 9/11 which turned national security into a party-political issue, giving US and UK governments the pretext to vastly reduce the human rights of their people in the name of homeland security (see Naomi Klein’s provocative “The Shock Doctrine”). 

When Christian Barnard was asked why, knowing the risks, he could contemplate pioneering heart-transplant surgery, he replied “because I’d rather put may faith in God than in the Devil”.

It’s true that people behave irrationally at times. But they can also behave rationally. It’s because I prefer to put my faith in people’s rational abilities that I am not so fatalistic, and that is why I have recommended books such as Weick and Sutcliffe’s most excellent “Managing the Unexpected: Assuring High Performance in an Age of Complexity” (2001) in earlier comments on this blog. It ought to be compulsory reading for all bankers and regulators, indeed for all managers who are have to cope in these disheartening times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commented above: “But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable”</p>
<p>Anonymous asks “.. mate what are you on about? bubbles have repeated throughout the last 500 years, this is just another” and so does mike “Geoffey what are you on about? Asset bubbles have repeated throughout history, this is just another. At the peak of the tulip bubble people were swapping their houses for flower bulbs.. there will be plenty more to come.”</p>
<p>OK, this is what I am on about. Of course there have been bubbles and there will be again. Sure people behave irrationally at times but merely to accept this is a counsel of despair. There are deep causes to the global economic crises and social psychology can aid economics, accounting and finance in helping us understand them, and the whole purpose of better understanding is to help us mitigate the risk of them happening again.</p>
<p>An accessible source of insight from this perspective is the excellent BBC series by Adam Curtis “The Century of the Self” , that you can download for free from the Internet Archive (www.archive.org search “century of the self”). If you missed it, watch it now. There are four programs of one-hour each. If you are only going to watch one, watch number four.</p>
<p>This last part describes how politicians took up “focus groups” and the consequences. It’s possible to argue that the global economic crisis is the result of governments’ indulgence of the view that everyone can be anything, do everything and have everything they want. Here is the conclusion to that series: </p>
<p>“Fundamentally, here we have two different views of human nature and of democracy.</p>
<p>“You have the view that people are irrational, that they are bundles of unconscious emotion. That comes directly out of Freud, and businesses are able to respond to that. That is what they have honed their skills doing. That is what marketing is really all about. What are the symbols, the images, the music, and the words that will appeal to these unconscious feelings?</p>
<p>“Politics must be more than that. Politics and leadership are about engaging the public in a rational discussion and deliberation about what is best, and treating people with respect in terms of their rational abilities to debate what is best.”</p>
<p>Two things have happened since that series was produced. First were the moves to encourage personal indebtedness – to keep the “dangerous crowd” hard at work and therefore more docile – that have culminated in the global economic crisis. Second came 9/11 which turned national security into a party-political issue, giving US and UK governments the pretext to vastly reduce the human rights of their people in the name of homeland security (see Naomi Klein’s provocative “The Shock Doctrine”). </p>
<p>When Christian Barnard was asked why, knowing the risks, he could contemplate pioneering heart-transplant surgery, he replied “because I’d rather put may faith in God than in the Devil”.</p>
<p>It’s true that people behave irrationally at times. But they can also behave rationally. It’s because I prefer to put my faith in people’s rational abilities that I am not so fatalistic, and that is why I have recommended books such as Weick and Sutcliffe’s most excellent “Managing the Unexpected: Assuring High Performance in an Age of Complexity” (2001) in earlier comments on this blog. It ought to be compulsory reading for all bankers and regulators, indeed for all managers who are have to cope in these disheartening times.</p>
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		<title>By: John Wu</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1934</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Wu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed with Simon almost on everything here.  The interesting question is: how will a system that aligns personal greed with the greater good of the institutions they work in be put in place?  Well, certainly you can&#039;t have governments dictate how Wall Street firms pay their people.  You would think that that role should be played by free market forces through shareholder.  But interestingly, that does NOT happen.  Look at the situation at Merrill Lynch.  The guy who essentially sank the firm - Stan O&#039;Neal is walking away with &gt;$100mm.  The person who was brought in to fix it (and who did a marvelous job at it) - John Thain will not be paid.  AND this is overwhelmingly the sentiments of Merill&#039;s shareholders.  So a smart person working in the industry will draw the only logical conclusion - that it&#039;s better to be Stan than to be John.  The problem is a little bit more than alignment of interest, although that is probably the biggest one.  The problem is also that in a highly complex system where transactions are built in with principal agency interactions, the agency problem has to be solved. It is particularly difficult with information asymmetry, lack of transparency and high costs associated with obtaining the information from which to make rational decisions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed with Simon almost on everything here.  The interesting question is: how will a system that aligns personal greed with the greater good of the institutions they work in be put in place?  Well, certainly you can&#8217;t have governments dictate how Wall Street firms pay their people.  You would think that that role should be played by free market forces through shareholder.  But interestingly, that does NOT happen.  Look at the situation at Merrill Lynch.  The guy who essentially sank the firm &#8211; Stan O&#8217;Neal is walking away with &gt;$100mm.  The person who was brought in to fix it (and who did a marvelous job at it) &#8211; John Thain will not be paid.  AND this is overwhelmingly the sentiments of Merill&#8217;s shareholders.  So a smart person working in the industry will draw the only logical conclusion &#8211; that it&#8217;s better to be Stan than to be John.  The problem is a little bit more than alignment of interest, although that is probably the biggest one.  The problem is also that in a highly complex system where transactions are built in with principal agency interactions, the agency problem has to be solved. It is particularly difficult with information asymmetry, lack of transparency and high costs associated with obtaining the information from which to make rational decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Wilkinson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kondratiev (spelling varies) strikes again, possibly about ten years later than might have been expected on  a stricter timetable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kondratiev (spelling varies) strikes again, possibly about ten years later than might have been expected on  a stricter timetable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MT</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also maybe we need additional incentives besides money. Economists work for Nobel Prizes, not for money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also maybe we need additional incentives besides money. Economists work for Nobel Prizes, not for money.</p>
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		<title>By: MT</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I blame the economists. If we knew how economies work this never would have happened.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame the economists. If we knew how economies work this never would have happened.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ADoc</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ADoc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a question: those countries or situations where there WASN&#039;T a bubble... why did that happen? I have my own theory (it&#039;s all down to austerity and morals) but it&#039;s an interesting observation, don&#039;t you think?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question: those countries or situations where there WASN&#8217;T a bubble&#8230; why did that happen? I have my own theory (it&#8217;s all down to austerity and morals) but it&#8217;s an interesting observation, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: If bubbles are certain, what do we do about it? &#171; Wall Street Arrow: Market Insights</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[If bubbles are certain, what do we do about it? &#171; Wall Street Arrow: Market Insights]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/    &#9654; Comment   /* 0) { jQuery(&#039;#comments&#039;).show(&#039;&#039;, change_location()); jQuery(&#039;#showcomments a .closed&#039;).css(&#039;display&#039;, &#039;none&#039;); jQuery(&#039;#showcomments a .open&#039;).css(&#039;display&#039;, &#039;inline&#039;); return true; } else { jQuery(&#039;#comments&#039;).hide(&#039;&#039;); jQuery(&#039;#showcomments a .closed&#039;).css(&#039;display&#039;, &#039;inline&#039;); jQuery(&#039;#showcomments a .open&#039;).css(&#039;display&#039;, &#039;none&#039;); return false; } } jQuery(&#039;#showcomments a&#039;).click(function(){ if(jQuery(&#039;#comments&#039;).css(&#039;display&#039;) == &#039;none&#039;) { self.location.href = &#039;#comments&#039;; check_location(); } else { check_location(&#039;hide&#039;); } }); function change_location() { self.location.href = &#039;#comments&#039;; } }); /* ]]&gt; */ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/" rel="nofollow">http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/</a>    &#9654; Comment   /* 0) { jQuery(&#8216;#comments&#8217;).show(&#8221;, change_location()); jQuery(&#8216;#showcomments a .closed&#8217;).css(&#8216;display&#8217;, &#8216;none&#8217;); jQuery(&#8216;#showcomments a .open&#8217;).css(&#8216;display&#8217;, &#8216;inline&#8217;); return true; } else { jQuery(&#8216;#comments&#8217;).hide(&#8221;); jQuery(&#8216;#showcomments a .closed&#8217;).css(&#8216;display&#8217;, &#8216;inline&#8217;); jQuery(&#8216;#showcomments a .open&#8217;).css(&#8216;display&#8217;, &#8216;none&#8217;); return false; } } jQuery(&#8216;#showcomments a&#8217;).click(function(){ if(jQuery(&#8216;#comments&#8217;).css(&#8216;display&#8217;) == &#8216;none&#8217;) { self.location.href = &#8216;#comments&#8217;; check_location(); } else { check_location(&#8216;hide&#8217;); } }); function change_location() { self.location.href = &#8216;#comments&#8217;; } }); /* ]]&gt; */ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Antoine</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antoine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There were housing bubbles elsewhere, including Spain and UK, and even perhaps of larger magnitude,  but it seems the US housing market had specific characteristics (legal, fiscal, regulatory, market organization...) that lead to the crash, as explained in The Housing Market Meltdown: why did it happen in the US (http://www.bis.org/publ/work259.htm)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were housing bubbles elsewhere, including Spain and UK, and even perhaps of larger magnitude,  but it seems the US housing market had specific characteristics (legal, fiscal, regulatory, market organization&#8230;) that lead to the crash, as explained in The Housing Market Meltdown: why did it happen in the US (<a href="http://www.bis.org/publ/work259.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bis.org/publ/work259.htm</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-12-08 at DeStructUred Blog</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1879</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2008-12-08 at DeStructUred Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Causes: Maybe People Are Just Like That « The Baseline Scenario (tags: finance crisis) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Causes: Maybe People Are Just Like That « The Baseline Scenario (tags: finance crisis) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Kwak</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Kwak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, to take the analogy further, you can still track hurricanes, forecast where they are going to land, build structures that can withstand hurricanes, make people who build in hurricane zones pay appropriate insurance premiums, evacuate people to safety when necessary, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, to take the analogy further, you can still track hurricanes, forecast where they are going to land, build structures that can withstand hurricanes, make people who build in hurricane zones pay appropriate insurance premiums, evacuate people to safety when necessary, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Yasser</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yasser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fact that changing attributes of the same asset results in a &quot;new&quot; bubble and therefore the experienced people behave the same. Since this attribute of human behavior has now been clarified, (which leads to the fact that the bubble is an inevitable entity), we should put it in the same category as &quot;natural disaster&quot;. I mean you cannot predict it, it wreaks havoc, and the next one does the same. The conclusion is that business schools should not be teaching about &quot;Oh, that was a bubble and its causes&quot;, but a course on &quot;How to ReBound After a Bubble&quot;, similar to &quot;How to Build Your House After a Typhoon.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that changing attributes of the same asset results in a &#8220;new&#8221; bubble and therefore the experienced people behave the same. Since this attribute of human behavior has now been clarified, (which leads to the fact that the bubble is an inevitable entity), we should put it in the same category as &#8220;natural disaster&#8221;. I mean you cannot predict it, it wreaks havoc, and the next one does the same. The conclusion is that business schools should not be teaching about &#8220;Oh, that was a bubble and its causes&#8221;, but a course on &#8220;How to ReBound After a Bubble&#8221;, similar to &#8220;How to Build Your House After a Typhoon.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: nickgogerty</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nickgogerty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read Kindelberger manias panics, crashes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read Kindelberger manias panics, crashes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[... &quot;But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable&quot;

.. Geoffey what are you on about? Asset bubbles have repeated throughout history, this is just another. At the peak of the tulip bubble people were swapping their houses for flower bulbs.. there will be plenty more to come.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; &#8220;But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable&#8221;</p>
<p>.. Geoffey what are you on about? Asset bubbles have repeated throughout history, this is just another. At the peak of the tulip bubble people were swapping their houses for flower bulbs.. there will be plenty more to come.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://baselinescenario.com/2008/12/07/financial-crisis-bubbles-causes-psychology/#comment-1865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://baselinescenario.com/?p=1537#comment-1865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[... &quot;But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable&quot;

.. mate what are you on about? bubbles have repeated throughout the last 500 years, this is just another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; &#8220;But I think it too fatalistic to conclude that bubbles are inevitable&#8221;</p>
<p>.. mate what are you on about? bubbles have repeated throughout the last 500 years, this is just another.</p>
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